Schiit Jotunheim impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Bill-P, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    We'll see when more units come in. For the HD650s though, it's pretty cheap and easy to get a balanced cable for them. If you're gonna put in the $400 for the Jotun, why not put in the extra $50-100 to get the most out of it?
     
  2. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    I read somewhere about the Mjolnir and/or Ragnarok sounding underwhelming, and then reading a Jason post saying that those amps were optimized for balanced out. Not sure if it was Head-Fi or this site.

    If that is true and no one's talking out of their ass, I wonder if the same is true for Jotunheim? I don't recall anybody specifically comparing its SE and balanced outputs.
     
  3. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    See @Torq's experiences on the matter:
    http://www.head-fi.org/t/804153/life-after-yggdrasil/690#post_12792286
    http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/2325#post_12544550

    My understanding is that Jotunheim's architecture does things very differently from Mjolnir/Ragnarok, and doesn't rely on summers for the SE operation. Thus it seems to avoid this limitation in the two flagship amps, though best would be for someone to confirm this via direct comparison (keeping in mind to level match the output).
     
  4. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    It's a pretty tall task... trying to level match two different outputs that aren't at the same gain level.

    And I don't want to make it sound like my ears are golden or anything, but... there is a tiny bit of extra refinement/control to be had with the balanced (BAL) output, and this is true regardless of whether it's a high impedance load (HD580) or low impedance but low sensitivity (HE-5) on my system.

    The difference is indeed less pronounced than the difference I heard between SE and BAL outputs on bigger Schiit amps in the past, but... eh... if all else being equal, why not use the BAL output if/when you can? BAL cables for your headphones couldn't be that expensive, right?

    On that note, there is a not so subtle difference between the BAL and SE inputs of Jotunheim. I'm not sure if I should chalk that up to the Geek Out V2, or if it'll be true across the board for other DACs as well, but SE sounds like it has a tiny bit of haze, whereas BAL sounds like it simply lets go, and lets more clarity come through.

    Props to @RKML0007 for sharing your impressions! And dang... I knew this amp would scale up higher, but I didn't think it would scale all the way up to Yggdrasil! I can clearly hear my DAC holding it back (noise floor could be a bit blacker, and microdetails could be a bit more present/clean, and not cloudy).
     
  5. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    Great impressions, @RKML0007.

    Can't wait to hear the Jotun, but what's more, can't wait to hear the amps this topology trickles up to.

    It depends on how it performs as a pre-amp. I know @thegunner100 will be comparing against the internal pre of the Virtue One, and when I hear it in my system, I'll be comparing against the Sys--which to me is a more transparent pre than Ragnarok.

    (although to be fair, Raggy's pre does mate well with its own power amp section, just not well with other power amps).
     
  6. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Now I have some schiit to think about. I'm a day or so away from the 15 day return policy on my Valhalla 2... paired with the Momby.

    Would reeeeally like a Val2/Joti shootout.... I suppose if I don't like it I can return it and get the Val2 back...

    I will say though I am loving and getting used to the tube sound coming exclusively from SS.
     
  7. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Has anyone tried Jotunheim DAC with and without Wyrd? Does Wyrd make a noticeable improvement on Jotunheim?
     
  8. fierce_freak

    fierce_freak Friend

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    Sounds like the amp section is pretty awesome. I'm curious to hear about DAC performance - this thing could be a solution to a "problem" i have.
     
  9. RKML0007

    RKML0007 Friend

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    I evaluated using both outputs. Balanced when I had a cable for the set of cans being used. At present, I only have it for ETHER-C and 800S. Looking to add balanced for the other two.

    It is very difficult to compare SE to Balanced inputs because of volume matching. However, I tried until my ears bled. The balanced input allows for a touch more open space and dimensionality. I agree with @Bill-P that a bit more clarity could be perceived via balanced input.
     
  10. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    Yeah, I'd love to see how the Jotun performs as an active pre-amp against the passive Sys. @SteelCannon is getting the same Stratos but it is being built with an internal passive pre-amp and pot. In addition, his will have XLR inputs rather than SE as well.

    I wish that the pre-amp in the Virtue could be completely by-passed, but at the very least I can disable the volume pot. It's said to sound better without the pot active, compared to turning the volume knob all the way up.

    Thanks! I ended up ordering a pair of XLR interconnects from Pro Audio LA for ~$50 but it's good to know that people won't be missing out too much from using the SE inputs. But that is also probably somewhat dac-dependent as well. For anyone looking to get some nice cables (Mogami wire and Neutrik jacks), Pro Audio LA seems to be a good choice. I'll report in when I get them (maybe later today).
     
  11. Shutterbox

    Shutterbox New

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    I was pretty much intended to get a Val2 and HD600, after hearing opinions from different threads/posts.
    If jotunheim has the more juice and flexibilty (in terms of headphone pairings) compared to Val2, I don't mind spending $50 more just to keep more headphone options available.

    I wanted to say jotunheim also takes away to costs of tube rolling (for Val2) but that really isn't the point if one wants to have different glass flavours.
     
  12. moosecraft

    moosecraft New

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    Has there been any word on EU availability?
     
  13. landroni

    landroni Friend

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  14. laevi

    laevi Friend

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    I'm also interested in the Jotunheim vs Val2 comparison. I have a pair of UERM, so Im curious about Jotunheim's performance with it compared to Val2.
     
  15. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    You use your UERMs with the Valhalla 2? It was pretty unlistenable for me, with the severe treble rolloff due to 3.5ohm output impedance.
     
  16. RKML0007

    RKML0007 Friend

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    Functionally, as a pre-amp, the Master-11 had a remote. This was a nice feature that Jotunheim doesn't have. The Master-11 SE and BAL output was level matched between them. It was very cool to compare back when I had a liquid carbon.

    Jotunheim pre-amp output is excellent. I don't have another balanced amp to test with, but I did use a Jensen PC-2XR to convert BAL output to SE and compared Yggdrasil output this way into ZDS, switching back and forth - again, until my ears bled. I tried this with, and without Jotunheim in the chain. Transparency is well maintained.
     
  17. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    It is a tall task, and there are many reasons why a box like that isn't a solution. The chief one being that... it's in the signal path, either digital or analog. The signal path is already crowded enough as is when you have an external amp and a DAC... Adding more stuffs to it will simply degrade the signal, and in most cases, will result in reduced resolution across the board. This is why an A/B test without a person manually switching cables around is not very reliable. There is no such thing as a perfectly transparent level-matching A/B switch box. It is a physically impossible thing.

    And if you ask a person to do it for you, disregarding the distracting noises he or she will make, the time lag between each listen may also place some psychological strain on your mind and cloud your judgment.

    Seriously, I think it's easy enough to switch back and forth, rock the volume knob, and decide for yourself if the difference is there, or even "worth it". It's much less trouble than having to deal with a "magic box" or subjective/objective arguments on the matter. Ultimately, you are the only one who can make the decision.
     
  18. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    The way I see it, such a box may help such comparisons, far better than manual switching (distractions, etc.) or manual level-matching (less accurate). Whether it degrades the signal or not (for it to be sufficiently problematic) is a different matter, although in any case both signals will go through the same path, so if there is any tangible degradation it will be on both sides of the A/B comparison...
     
  19. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you have a Wyrd already, go ahead and use it. If you don't, don't bother getting one for a $100 dac module and spend the combined money on a Modi Multibit instead.
     
  20. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    The problem is that things will average out, so you'll end up with both sides not giving you enough information to differentiate.

    If it wasn't such a big deal to compare them, then we wouldn't really need independent measurements of amps and DACs to tell us more about what's going on. If A/B was more reliable, you'd think we'd be doing it more around these parts. But instead, most of us gear up on measurement equipments instead.
     

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