Schiit Ragnarok vs McIntosh MHA100

Yesterday I heard the McIntosh MHA100 headphone amplifier ($4,500) through a pair of LCD-3 headphones at my local audiophile store. Unfortunately they only had the Ayre Codex amp ($1,800), the Oppo HA-1 amp ($1,200), and the Audeze Deckard amp ($700) there to compare it with, and obviously the McIntosh was the clear winner. (I used the same LCD-3 headphones, but each of these amps has their own built in DAC which affected the sound.)

I then switched the McIntosh MHA100 to play through a pair of midrange speakers (though I do not recall the make or model), since the McIntosh is both a headphone and speaker amplifier (50 watts per channel). It sounded very nice, but I was not there to do a comparison with speakers. (I did notice that the McIntosh amp ran the coolest of all the headphone amps cited above, sporting a large finned-heatsink off the back.)

This leads me to my question: Since the Schiit Ragnarok is also a headphone and speaker amplifier (60 watts per channel), has anyone in the SBAF community had a chance to listen to both the Ragnarok and the MHA100 and directly compare them... and if so, what did you think?

Of course the Ragnarok does not have a built-in DAC, so it would need a DAC to make it a fair fight. And I am not sure, but it seems that the MHA100's built-in DAC may not be able to be bypassed.

And out of curiosity, do the Ragnarok and MHA100 share similar designs or do these headphone/speaker amplifiers achieve this combination via different paths?

 

So I assume LCD3 is your main headphone? Then forget about it, LCD3 probably stops scaling in a meaningful way at somewhere around Schiit Lyr 2. Both Rag and MHA100 will probably be overkills.

 

Nope, the audiophile store just happened to have a LCD-3 there to use. I did not mention it, but they also had a LCD-2 that I listened with as well. I have no TOTL headphones yet, but I look forward to listening to the HE1K... and maybe the new LCD-4 when they become available. So forget I even mentioned headphones, as the comparison between the Ragnarok and the MHA100 still intrigues me.

 

any speaker amp is headphone amp as well. they just tap the headphone out to speaker outputs with simple pad resistor...but, anyhoo, if was me i probably stick with rag. had experience with lot of mac stuff and even their totl mono blocks and never was fond on how they purposely colored the sound...mac stuff not my cup of tea but, if you enjoyed it, then that's awesome.

 

The MHA100 is warm and mushy with various headphones that I tried it out of in store. I've also tried a mcintosh dac/pre-amp with the LS50s and that made the system warm sounding as well, which was contrary to what I was led to believe the LS50s would sound like. Like Rex said, mcintosh gear is quite colored. If you like that kind of sound, then great. But know that there's much more resolving gear and less colored gear out there. I have only heard the Rag once briefly but based on my experience with schiit's other gear, I'd take it any day over a mcintosh. Plus you can spend that leftover money on a Yggdrasil or Gungnir Multibit + headphones.

 

If you check the product specs of the McIntosh MHA 100 you'll see that it does have digital inputs on it .

You can use a DAC of your choice with it . (I'm a bit surprised that the dealer didn't know this ! Was it a Magnolia store that you were in ?)

 

Analog inputs you mean.

 

If you'll check the connectivity block on the specs page it list the MHA 100 as having a digital coaxial input, a digital optical input & a digital AES/EBU input.

(I'm just going by the product page , so if McIntosh didn't put these on actual product they lied; If they did lie I guess that's one more reason to question how much technical integrity does the modern day "Mc" still have if they don't even check their spec sheets )

 

Right. If you're using the digital inputs, then you're using the MHA100's dac. If you're using the analog inputs, you're using a separate dac.

 

Oopsie Daisey.... Didn't have my coffee ( Better make that a Double Expresso !) (because an Amp outputs "Analog";
I better make that a Triple Expresso)

 

Heh, it's all good

 

It does have Analog inputs, but if you were going to spend this much on a "real" headphone amp, you'd be much better off getting something like the Simaudio Moon Neo 430h (You would spend this much on a headphone amp & let someone else choose the DAC you would be using ???)

 

That makes sense that you can bypass the on-board DAC of the McIntosh MHA100 by using the analog inputs. It would be interesting to see how much of the McIntosh house sound that might remove, given a DAC like the Schiit Yggdrasil.

In any event, I was intrigued in comparing the sound and architecture between the Ragnarok and MHA100. I do appreciate hearing that the MHA100 was "warm and mushy" and that the McIntosh gear in general is colored to achieve their distinctive sound. I just know that the MHA100 sounded the best of the 4 amplifier/DACs that I listened to that day, but of course it was over twice the price of any of the others.

 

Well now that I own a Torpedo III with Cinemags, it would be interesting to compare it to the McIntosh MHA100. I can connect my Yggdrasil to the MHA100 via the analog inputs, allowing me to contrast the performance with the internal DAC (when using digital inputs). I also now have a pair of HEKs, which should be resolving enough to hear the differences between the two amps.

Have any SBAF members taken the MHA100 for a spin lately? Anyone done this type of comparison with the Ragnarok and the MHA100 yet?

 

I'm assuming you're doing your listening at Definitive in Redmond/Bellevue.

I've got several recent hours on their MHA100 and I live with a Ragnarok/Yggdrasil combination at home and a Bifrost "4490"/Lyr stack in the office. Most of my listening there has been on the LCD-3 and LCD-X, as I was looking for an upgrade to my pre-fazor LCD-2.2. Ignoring price, I wasn't terribly impressed; and if I acknowledge the price then it's comically poor value and, I feel, seriously underperforms units costing a third it's current sticker.

I'm not sure what the DAC implementation is on the MHA100, but hooking up a Chord Mojo in its place easily bests the built-in DAC.

Since they have an Oppo HA-1 sitting two shelves down from the MHA100, I gave that a listen as well. While I didn't get on with the Oppo's internal DAC either, the HA-1 fed from the Mojo was, I thought, a much more enjoyable listen than the McIntosh. Sound/music reproduction wise I'd take the Bifrost/Lyr (or Mojo/Lyr) combination over either the MHA100 or the HA1.

Surprisingly, driving the LCD-X, I preferred the Mojo on its own over either the Oppo or the McIntosh in SE mode, though the LCD-3 faired better with the Mojo/Oppo combination.

Personally, after a few scotches, I find the McIntosh to be quite appealing aesthetically but I think the Ragnarok soundly stomps it for headphone use. Can't comment on them when it comes to driving speakers. If you gave me the McIntosh, I'd still rather listen to the Bifrost/Lyr.

 

Torq - Thanks for the detailed response. Your impressions, from someone that has heard both amps and tried an external DAC with the MHA100, are what I was looking for. And yes, I did audition the MHA100 at Definitive Audio in Bellevue.

Now I may be back to comparing the Rag to the Last Pass HPA-1.

 

Why not throw the EC Black Widow into the tryout mix. ( Though it bothers me a bit it doesn't have that exceptional volume control the Rag is using ) (Hmmm... I wonder how much that VC would add to BW cost ?)

 

Bassy, mushy, whatever was written? No way. Was the bass boost on 10 or 12.5db and you didn't know it?

That, and what torq and a few others wrote is quite contrary to my experience. I find personally, and have read many others also feel, the mha100 is the best match for the he1k. It is not an echo chamber. All were from independent unrelated parties. Be that thru the autoformers or amp taps.

Curious what auto former impedance you had selected with the headphones torq? And if you tried the amp taps bypassing the autoformers?

Me? I love my mha100. I use my he1k or ether the most, driven thru the autoformers output on the 40-150 ohm taps the most (it does have an effect); speaker taps when I listen to live music, or want eXtra volume & punch.

With all these opposing comments coming from people having the location in common, I wonder if it's being fed well. Or correctly setup. Btw, one thing I'd never recommend is activate the HDX crossfeed. Unlike say the one in the M9xx which is subtle, the xfeed in the Mc is extremely agressive. To me it sucks the life out of regular recordings. I can ONLY use it with old Cream or Beetles that have instruments completely panned to one channel or the other and make me wanna throw up thru headphones without some xfeed. But if you were using the mha100 with HDX activated for normally mixed music, I'd consider conclusions drawn from that null and void. Some people like it. I hate it; I super hate it.

P.s. I read a comparison of the Mc amp to the Pass and it was solidly in favor of the Mc btw.

 

I've tried the MHA100 with various headphones but wasn't really impressed by it in any meaningful way. Although I've never directly compared them mano a mano, I think clearly preferred Ragnarok for most headphones. The built-in DAC of MHA100 did it no favors either. Overpriced piece of gear in my opinion, you'll get much more from a Yggdrasil/Rag combo.

 

On a strictly utilitarian basis I can understand where that is coming from. Would agree. Should be cheaper and Mc is applying a high premium for their name on it, and the sum of their casework, blue meters and autoformers.

I'll bring this up again though, we're you made aware by the sales staff that the output uses autoformers, and had a high/low gain setting. And was the correct one selected for your test headphones? Likewise for bass boost (it's centered at 40hz) And verified bass boost was off, or only +2.5db? Oh, and just now, I'm @ my work at home desk, piping last night's Voice to the amp, and volume is @ 75. Huh? I just realized for an unrelated reason I had input trim at -3db. So this is just to say there is that too, a -6/+6db input trim/boost. Hoping the trial amp was set at 0db.

With an efficient low impedance say 16ohm headphone, it should be set to the 8-40 ohm tap and normal gain. With any ortho, use the 40-150 ohm tap, high gain. With a high impedance hp, use the 150-600 ohm setting, gain selected based on the capability of the hp.

What I like about the amp, what I just cited, can work to its detriment if not setup well. I'd further go on to say if you change those settings and it makes no difference in music dynamics, the amp is not being fed well upstream.

I say none of this to counter your statement of "I think clearly preferred Ragnarok for most headphones.". It's fabulous at an impressive price. Just trying to address what may have left you unimpressed by the mha100. As it does live up to its hype from my experience; and I'm lucky enough to not feel I must apply a weighing factor adjustment to that based on what I paid. Whether the DAC lets it down. I must not have good enough hearing to tell.