Sennheiser HD650

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Jeangenie, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    modded hd800 with a amp that allow bass boost.

    to me, the biggest and practically only real drawback of the hd650 is bass.
     
  2. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Modded HD800 can be really nice with Mjolnir 2 with the right tubes (treble can be peaky with the wrong ones, including stock tubes). The slam and warmth from Mjolnir 2 does the HD800 low end a lot of favors, and HD800 compensates for Mjolnir 2's somewhat lacking staging abilities.
     
  3. digitaldave

    digitaldave Acquaintance

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    @winders,

    You are right, they are really good value. And they scale really well, so I doubt you've 'got ahead of yourself' with your gear. Value and scaleability are the reasons the HD650/600/6xx are so popular here.

    I also think there's an element of upwards price creep going on - everything seems to be getting more expensive, and people don't think they can be TOTL headphones unless they cost well over 1000 £/€/$.
     
  4. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Don't let someone else persuade you to spend money that you obviously do not need to spend!

    Obviously I don't know the guy who messaged you, but I wonder if he has ever spent time listening to good speakers? You're a speaker guy, and if the HD650 satisfies you, then it is probably doing a really great job.
     
  5. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    I've had a few of those, usually from cloth-eared individuals who are constantly buying the latest weirdly-tuned planar du jour, and feel threatened when someone expresses a complete lack of interesting in owning same. It's generally best to leave them in their moist little world.

    Take baby steps towards the sound you like, and don't feel pressured to chase anything else. I'm sure that if there was a headphone that you enjoyed substantially more, you'd have made plans to snag one already- that probably tells you something.

    Another big one is the tuning/tonality. Many have glaring oddities of tuning (esp upper-mid suckouts) - no matter your budget, the HD650 seems to remain competitive there.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  6. winders

    winders boomer

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    Thanks for the feedback, guys!

    I guess I need to get to a meet or show where there are a lot of headphones to listen to so I can hear if there is something better for my ears and music than the HD 650 headphones. Right now I don't feel compelled to change my setup. Even if I did find headphones I liked better, it doesn't mean that I would need to do anything about it. At least not right away and maybe not ever if the economics don't make any sense.
     
  7. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    If you are listening to music, tone is way more important than technicalities IMHO. If you are 'listening' to gear, your priorities may be different...

    HD600 nails tone for me, hence it has outlasted all the other TOTL/FOTM headphones I have bought along the way. HD650 still has its place too, depending on the music.
     
  8. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    Hi

    I'm trying out some equalization with my HD650 in Linux. I discovered a 4-band parametric equalizer I can use with ALSA:
    http://quitte.de/dsp/caps.html#EqFA4p

    I've had a play with it and it makes a huge difference to the sound, it is almost like having a completely different pair of headphones (not exaggerating). The darkness of the HD650 is banished.

    I chose the four frequencies to try and correct by looking at the frequency graph here:
    http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-hd-650.php

    I don't really understand how the equalizer works, I've just been fiddling with the parameters. I don't know what the curve actually looks like with filters used and not sure what values to put for the bandwidth. I'm making educated guesses :) Here is the description:

    Here is my usage of the equalizer in ALSA:

    Code:
    pcm.crossfeed {
      type ladspa
      slave.pcm "invert"
      path "/usr/lib/ladspa"
    
      plugins [
        # Amplify
    #    {
    #      id 1181
    #      label amp
    #      input {
    #        controls [ -6.0 ]
    #      }
    #    }
    
        # Equalizer
        {
          id 2609
          label EqFA4p
          input {
    #        controls [ 1 125 2 -1.5  1 5500 1 -6  1 9250 1 10.5  1 10250 1 2  0 ]
            controls [ 1 20 2 6  1 125 2 -1.5  1 5500 2 -6  1 9250 2 10.5  0 ]
          }
        }
    
        # Crossfeed
        {
          id 4221
          label bs2b
          input {
            controls [ 650 9.5 ]
          }
        }
      ]
    }
    The equalizer parameters are in the "controls" array, I've tried two different sets. There are four sets of four numbers and one final overall gain value. For each set of filter values, the first value of the four enables / disables the filter, the second value is the frequency, the third value is the bandwidth, and the fourth is the gain.

    What would be the optimal choice of parameters to correct the HD650 using this type of equalizer? Could my choices be improved? Bearing in mind there are only four bands. Many thanks :)

    EDIT: Maybe the "Eq4p" shelving filter would be more suitable?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  9. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    @mrflibble - that's awesome. Have you ever tried Sonarworks? It is a great plug-in that calibrates different headphones and it is a really wonderful plug-in.

    2017-06-09_160254.jpg
    2017-06-09_160352.jpg

    You can download a free trial of the plug-in here and learn more about it. It has calibration for a lot of major and popular headphones and really brings out the great sound of them.
    http://www.sonarworks.com/headphones

    List of supported Headphones here:

    http://www.sonarworks.com/headphones/supported

    Note: And yes they include the HD650

    You can also go here to plug in your headphones to see what calibration does. Just select your headphone from the drop-down list and give them a listen:

    http://www.sonarworks.com/truefi#/
     
  10. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    @The Alchemist Thanks for the info on Sonarworks. I had a look / listen to it yesterday, very impressive. But I don't think it supports Linux, if I'm not mistaken? I will have another look at it soon.

    I've been following @atomicbob 's System Synergy thread, that's where I got my inspiration.
     
  11. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    I've made a bit more progress. I've found that the EqFA4p filter sounds superior to the Eq4p filter, likely because the former uses "peaking equaliser filters". The peaking attribute would give the shape to correct the HD650's peaks.

    Originally, I was unable to visualize the equalization curve and I was just guessing the values. However, there is a GUI equalizer that is based on the same equalizer algorithm, https://github.com/x42/fil4.lv2 . This equalizer uses JACK instead of ALSA, but I only wish to see the curve and derive more suitable values for the filters. This is my initial attempt at an equalization curve for the HD650:

    [​IMG]

    I only have four nodes (channels) to play with on the ALSA / LADSPA version, I disabled the extra nodes available on the GUI version. I had to guess the bandwidth values when reading them off the gui, because there is no tool tip that gives the value on the bandwidth knob (the gain knobs have the useful tooltip to give the value). I had a look at the source code but couldn't find that part for the tooltip.

    The equalization parameters I derived from the curve are:

    Code:
        # Amplify
        {
          id 1181
          label amp
          input {
            controls [ -11.0 ]
          }
        }
    
        # Equalizer
        {
          id 2609
          label EqFA4p
          input {
            controls [ 1 20 1.0 6.0  1 40 1.0 -1.2  1 5800 0.5 -11.4  1 8400 0.5 14.6  0 ]
          }
        }
    With the equalizer enabled, the sound is much airier and lighter. It sounds much more realistic and more energy and lively. In particular, vocals and acoustic music sound much more natural and engaging. It has really transformed the sound, much more than most tube changes. Highly recommended to try, and free to boot :)

    To view the image: right click for popup menu to view in a new tab / window.

    EDIT: Not sure if the negative amplification is required, will do some listening with it off.

    The developer of the gui version updated it to include tool tips for the bandwidth controls. Turns out the values were 0.25 octave not 0.5 octave, which makes the parameters:

    Code:
        {
          id 2609
          label EqFA4p
          input {
            controls [ 1 20 0.25 6.0  1 140 0.25 -1.5  1 5800 0.25 -11.4  1 8400 0.25 14.6  0 ]
          }
        }
    I will probably take a look at the TAP Equalizer for ALSA next.

    The TAP equalizer isn't parametric, so will skip it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  12. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  13. Cluster

    Cluster New

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    Hello

    Mrflibble what target curve are you looking forward to? If you are trying to replicate the harman curve, maybe it is easier to check golden ears or rtings as they use something similar to that curve as their target response. Sonarworks seems to have similar target response as the post above shows but their sub bass for some reason is more demanding than the harman.
     
  14. Cluster

    Cluster New

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    Hello

    Seeing as I am close to buy my first "real headphone" an HD650 (or the 600) I would like to ask very specific questions.
    I have asked this before on general advice forums and read the sonarworks impressions one as well, but did not find much info regarding movies/sub bass tweak, though the few answers seemed positive. I figure here it will be easier for the 650 people to address such matters.

    Can an HD600 or 650 be ok/decent with movies and tracks that require sub bass via EQ (trying something similar to harman curve) and would I need dynamat to get the bass controlled in this scenario? From my research the hd650 should have an advantage in this regard compared to the hd600 and thus maybe has more potential to get all the balance right (from highs to lows)? Though without tweaking most people seem to favor the 600.

    The HD6xx seems to do everything very well and has the right tonality. If EQ can help the sub bass a bit and is still clean enough, then I think this is the best headphone for me to start with, considering the budget.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  15. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    I'm no longer matching against the HeadRoom (also tried InnerFidelity) frequency response - too much treble. I've currently matched against the Sonarworks curve as posted by @The Alchemist.

    The effect with matching against the Sonarworks is more subtle (and almost certainly more accurate). The biggest improvement is in the bass. The bloated mid bass is eliminated and the lower sub bass has more punch and presence. I think I got a bit overexcited with the earlier curves :)

    It is a pity that the equalizer I am using (CAPS EqFA4p) only has four control nodes. I found another parametric equalizer, eq10q, that has ten control nodes. With that I was able to create a curve much closer to the Sonarworks curve. Unfortunately, it uses JACK not ALSA. I'm still researching the best way to integrate JACK with ALSA. JACK resamples to its set sample rate, I would prefer it keep the sample rate of the source material.

    I will definitely take a look at those other curves you mentioned. :)
     
  16. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    If I want to EQ I just use JRiver parametric EQ. I can even take one of my measurements and EQ it to a target response and just copy the settings over to JRiver manually.
     
  17. Cluster

    Cluster New

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    Mrflibble did EQing the sub bass work nice for movies and music as in good quantity/impact and still clean?
     
  18. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    @mrflibble - I also have a setting for the HD650 called the "No Limits" setting. PM me your email address and I can send it to you or you can contact Sonarworks and request the HD650 "No Limits" Setting.
     
  19. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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  20. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    The bass on the HD650 is always going to be a bit slow and wooly no matter what you do. In my experience dynamat modding didn't make that much difference to bass quality/quantity (disclaimer: I don't tend to prioritise bass that much). There is decent extension, it can certainly resolve <30Hz fundamentals, so I think getting quantity of sub-bass is possible with EQ. With something like the Jotunheim you can get fairly decent speed and control as well. Regardless you will never get super clean planar-style bass out of it. In the end the only person who can judge if its bass performance is good enough is you. I'm not trying to put you off, because basically everything else about the HD650 is great, just saying you really need to try it for yourself. If sub-bass is REALLY important to you maybe look at a TH-X00 variant or planars instead.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017

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