Shouldn't the DT990 be technically superior over the DT880?

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Retskrad, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. Retskrad

    Retskrad New

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sweden
    The DT880 seem to get more love around audiophile circles but isn't beyerdynamic's DT990 technically superior? It doesn't have the metal mesh behind the driver so there's more airflow and it doesn't have the black fabric in front of the driver.

    Yes, it's brighter but wouldn't the driver be more transparent because it's not as contrived as the one in the DT880?
     
  2. Jackork

    Jackork Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2017
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Poland
    Good driver can be beneficial to headphones, but just on its own, it can't make headphones sound good.
     
  3. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Taking your line of thought further, then the most superior headphone must be a driver suspended in front of your ear with no cup and no coverings of any sort. Doesn't make much sense does it? (well... except for perhaps the AKG K1000 and a couple stax models of similar configuration)

    The DT880 is generally regarded are the most tonally balanced of the 770/880/990 family, which is quite different from saying superior.
     
  4. Retskrad

    Retskrad New

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sweden
    The DT990 came out several years after the DT880 and I wonder why Beyerdynamic took the DT880 and made it even brighter. I guess they couldn't create a fully open headphone which also sounds neutral with that driver so they said f**k it and created the DT990.

    It's really interesting how DT990 is basically the DT880 with a "loudness wars" EQ attached to it

     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  5. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Just because a headphone came out later does not mean it is more advanced. I'm more inclined to think that the number crunchers at Beyerdynamic don't really have a solid game plan. Maybe they just thought a higher number would make people buy it. What puzzles me is why haven't they released some newer tesla version of the 880 yet. They've done the T70 and T90, and they must know that the 880 is generally regarded as the "hifi" choice... or maybe they really are that far out of touch. *shrug*
     
  6. Lurker

    Lurker Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    33
    The T90 is "semi-open" as the cups are virtually identical to the DT880. Hence, a T80 wouldn't make sense.
    I think the DT1990 which is also semi-open seems to be the most balanced Tesla headphone.
    I think they ditched the 880 name because explaining the difference between semi-open and open has become too much of a hassle.
    Also, having two products in the same line that serve the same purpose, which according to Beyer is mixing and mastering in a quiet enviroment, doesn't make sense and additionally confuses people.
    So sliming down the product range this way seems logical.

    Regarding the topic I think the 880 is technically the best headphone in the line. Comparatively the DT990 seems mechanically underdamped due to the more open setup. At some point adding more "airflow" and acoustic openness becomes counterproductive.
     
  7. Retskrad

    Retskrad New

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sweden
    Interesting. So what exactly is the intended application for the DT990? It being underdamped goes to my point that beyerdynamic couldn't create a fully open headphone out of the DT880 driver and they couldn't tame the treble without masking detail.

     
  8. Lurker

    Lurker Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Nevermind.
    For the pro models Beyer designates the models as following:
    DT 770 - Studio/Stage (whatever that means)
    DT 880 - reference monitoring, mastering, mixing
    DT 990 - critical listening

    Makes sense. 880 is neutral and more "reference" and 990 has hyped treble for more detail.
     
  9. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    near Munich, Germany
    @Retskrad Do the technicalities matter when the FR pretty much prevents (critical) listening? Even if the DT990 was actually technically better (and I doubt it), it's just not neutral enough

    Isn't that what the T1 is?
     
  10. Retskrad

    Retskrad New

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sweden
    The DT990 doesn't really render more detail though. I heard the same details in the HD650, DT880 and DT990. The only difference is that the DT990 pushes treble frequencies above all else.

    The increased brightness over the DT880 would be acceptable if there were any additional detail to be had. Sennheiser increased the treble over their HD600's and created the HD800 which outputs more detail. There is no reason why the DT990 should have more treble than the DT880.

     
  11. Retskrad

    Retskrad New

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sweden
    Yes, the point was that although the DT990 is a brighter headphone, it should technically be a better headphone than the DT880 because the driver isn't as restrained.

    Now, in my opinion beyerdynamic shouldn't have released the DT990 because they obviously failed to make a fully open version of the DT880. What they ended up with was a headphone that doesn't output any more detail at all and instead it outputs excessive treble. The DT990 should never have left the lab.

     
  12. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    If that was the concept, it failed in execution. It seriously needs more damping to trim down the nutty treble peak (I haven't heard the v2, but I don't think they really fixed that)
     
  13. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    You're assuming unrestrained is a desirable trait, but it's not. All transducers need control elements, whether it be electrical, mechanical, acoustic, flow, etc etc.
     
  14. Pilsnerpunk

    Pilsnerpunk Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    177
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Canada
    Who cares if something is technically superior if it doesn't sound better? The HD700 should be technically superior to the HD650/600, but not many around here like it.

    I assume you're not very familiar with SBAF as many members here mod their headphones by putting material in front of and behind the driver to try and get the best sound.

    The things you criticized about the DT880 (wire mesh, fabric over driver) are probably what makes it sound better than the DT990.
     
  15. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Irvine CA
    @Retskrad, the DT-990 is an aberration. Protect your ears.
     
  16. Retskrad

    Retskrad New

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sweden
    My question was strictly if the DT990 was technically better. You're right, it sounds a lot worse than the DT880 but I think it's still worth discussing.

    The excessive treble that comes with the DT990 doesn't need to be there because the driver was made for the semi-open enclosure that is the DT880. I guess Beyer needed a new driver for a fully open design but they couldn't do it so they were lazy and did a botched job with the DT990. Seems like they still can't make a fully open headphone with their Tesla design that's not a treble cannon.

     
  17. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Irvine CA
    The DT-990 is not technically better. It is technically inferior to the DT-880 as a whole.

    Your question to me sound similar to asking if a speaker driver is technically better outside it's enclosure.

    Don't listen to that piece of shit. Even w/o measurements thrown at my face I could figure out very quickly that a DT-990 was painful crap.
     
  18. Retskrad

    Retskrad New

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sweden
    Fair enough. My line of reasoning was that every top of the line mid or high-fi headphone is usually fully open and headphone manufacturers do it because the driver is performing the best when it's not limited by lack of airflow, etc.

    I mean there is no reason for the DT990 existing, unless beyerdynamic actually believes that it's technically a better headphone over the DT880. They did a terrible job by making it and it shouldn't have left their lab that's for sure.

     
  19. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Irvine CA
    Not all drivers perform best w/o controlled airflow.

    I feel the DT990 was created to provide a bright signature. It was indeed a mistake IMO.
     
  20. Retskrad

    Retskrad New

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sweden
    The HD600 is borderline bright sometimes and the DT880 is great buy if you want a bright signature but it's already too bright outside of studio or video editing work. The DT990 is just a big question mark.


     

Share This Page