Snake oil thread

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by Judeus, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    I wasn't very clear. I meant "Is it snake oil if something works as well as claimed but is priced crazy high?" rather than "works as well as ordinary products".
     
  2. GTABeancounter

    GTABeancounter Friend

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    I should have said that "audiophile snake oil is in the eye of the beholder". Medicine is a whole different ball game... "subjective" is not a word I want to hear at my family MD's office.
     
  3. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    You start following vibrations in transistors and it leads down a dark path of audio nervosa. Only thing I could find was crap dealing with nano or particle level. Heady stuff. Essentially, nothing to worry about.

    The only other thing that crossed my mind was that in digital devices the quartz crystal is actually oscillating. However, if you read closer, it is oscillating giving off an electrical current as it flexes.

    It is more interesting to me to study the behaviors that lead to audio nervosa.
     
  4. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    Depends how it is presented. Can you imagine that those footers completely change the presentation of the entire system? That's the claim, and wait, they are:
    " Formed of a composite material founded in a new technology in which particulate piezoelectric material and a dielectric with high permittivity are dispersed throughout a polymeric base."
    Holly smoke, if that does not improve the sound, I do not know what does!
     
  5. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Hundreds of millions spent on isolating the LIGO detectors. Who knew, could have bought some of that high permititivity dialectric polymer stuff and done it on the cheap.
     
  6. Dotard

    Dotard Acquaintance

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    The quartz comments brought to mind the pocket watch equivalent of audiophile snake oil - the tourbillon. Has extremely questionable value in the pocket watch form factor, and essentially none in a wrist watch form factor, yet costs tens of thousands of dollars.

    At least watch enthusiasts are honest that what they are after is mechanical jewellry. There is an argument to be made that some of snake oil in the audio world is nothing more than electrical engineering jewelry, and it can make sense through that lens, but of course no one wants to admit that they are after some electronic jewelry.
     
  7. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Especially for the extremely high-end boutique stuff like the hand-made Manx stuff. It's clearly less accurate than a £10 Casio, but that's not the point- at all. It's a beautiful piece of art, built by hand.

    If I was pointlessly stinking rich, I think I'd be tempted by that, just for the "cunning artificer" angle.
     
  8. Nimrodor

    Nimrodor New

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    https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/archives/...sts-microphonics-in-ceramic-capacitors-part-2

    Ceramic capacitors (other than the expensive C0G types) could potentially be affected. They're almost never found in the signal path, but they're often used for decoupling (especially in digital circuits) because of their high self-resonance frequency and minimal footprint.
     
  9. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Hey, thanks- it's at least food for thought. Even though it may not turn out to be massively relevant, at least it's not hand-wavey ;)
     
  10. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Yes, I can appreciate the complexity and craft of a mechanical watch with many complications. It would be a mistake to believe such watches are more 'accurate' than a good old quartz watch, but that is not the point of buying one.

    I don't have any issue with audio jewelry either, so long as it is taken as just that.
     
  11. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Snake oil does nothing. Except, perhaps, make one's fingers greasy.

    the HOT is the classic example. Look at that that HF thread: people insist they hear a difference; others say don't criticise it until you've tried it. Are they rational individuals? Probably as rational as any of us. Until they encounter snake oil, when rationality goes out of the window.

    So.. snake oil does do something: it makes people crazy. It makes them deny reality. That's pretty unhealthy, really.
     
  12. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Cognative Dissonance.

    If you are ready to believe something is wrong with your current setup, then you might be persuaded by your emotions to change things and then hold onto that idea because you don't want to feel like you are stupid and made a bad decision.
     
  13. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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  14. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Microphonics, something familiar to tube users, are usually not an issue with solid state. High impedance (megohms) circuits can be subject to vibration issues, but those are normally only found in biomed devices and the issues mitigated. Poor solder joints or less than ideal physical implementation may introduce a microphonic problem.

    My measurement and system pictures typically have black mouse pad material between devices. They serve to keep devices from moving around and to prevent scratching or marring of surfaces.
     
  15. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    I'm not up to the crazy end of mechanical watches to the point of having a tourbillon, but I do have a few nice pieces, specifically older stuff from the late 1800's and early 1900's that are quite complex. And I know perfectly well that the timekeeping capabilities are fairly crap compared to anything like the Casio or Swatch or such. However, when you look through the back and see how many small pieces there are to make all of that work you have to be amazed. It's man-jewelry for sure. Here's an example of some Swiss mastery from the turn of the century. Still don't know exactly how they made such precise parts that are so tiny so long ago...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    On that note, Tourbillons have started to drift into the 3 figure range in watches which excites me greatly.
     
  17. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Is be happy if my Seiko 5 would not lose a minute a day. 21 jewels and even after service is on the bottom end of "spec".
     
  18. winders

    winders boomer

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    This thread is not about watch snake oil......
     
  19. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    That's lovely, thanks :) Incidentally, there are still people hand-making tiny parts like that these days, in one-off watches. I find that more beguiling than I really should.

    Thanks, I knew I could trust you to have a no-bullshit answer.
     
  20. Darren G

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    Agree, though I've never had a high-end watch dealer make snake oil claims either. I suppose there are some ignorant shoppers, but those I've dealt with are honest about accuracy, and if accuracy is a goal, then just buy a quartz watch. I also suspect most wrist watch users don't obsess over OMG my watch is 1 second off.

    There is a lot of BS in many industries, but it is hard to think of any industry that out does the audio industry when it comes to selling snake oil (No doubt someone will come up with a good example that makes me LOL).
     

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