Sony MDR-Z1R

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by mrweirdude, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    Won't go that far yet, but they are really shaping up to be my #1 closed model for quite some time and might indeed survive many years in the collection.

    I have the same impression at the moment.

    Value is always relative and depends on our preferences too. €1800 is a lot of money and a bit outrageous for any headphones. But considering how much prices have been going up these past years and the alternatives for the Z1R, I find the amount competitive.
    Taking into account the HD 800 S for instance, at least around here it's still retailing at €1600 (well, 1598). That's a tiny difference considering build quality, presentation/package and also considering that you'll still need to have decent gear to drive the 800 (or spend more buying it).

    Usually I would agree. But in this price band everything starts to count and there is a lot less margin to compromise in things like the presentation; one has to be pickier and expect attention to detail in all areas of the product. If they charge a lot, all details better correspond, and that does not happen with many other TOTL cans that are definitely not cheap at all. In that sense, the Z1R delivers.

    Plus that might give them a bit extra charm on a used sale in a couple of decades (yes, I'm being very optimistic here, but hey, we saw what happened with the resale prices of some old flagships)
     
  2. Shardnax

    Shardnax New

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    What issues do you have with build quality on the Senns? Aside from the pads and headband being dust magnets, and perhaps lack of premium materials, I can't find anything to fault them on.

    I wouldn't disagree that packaging and presentation are important after a certain price point. I can't think any of the well-regarded $1k+ cans that outright fail in this aspect (of those I've seen). Some are nicer than others but, I'd rather spend less for a functional storage box than more for a fancier one.

    If this is considered too off topic please let me know and feel free to delete the post.
     
  3. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    ill be able to nab a pair of z1rs as soon as I get my Eikons and Atticus. I will compare them. FWIW the Atticus is a lot different than what I heard before so previous impressions of the Atticus that me and @Merrick had are pretty much disqualified now.

    Ill do a write up here of them.

    Edit: the person flaked out on me....oh well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  4. GelockS

    GelockS Friend

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    Have you tried the MDR-1A? --> http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/sony-mdr-1a-measurements.385/

    After a week+ listening, I believe that these are MDR-1As in steroids basically. I liked the 1As a whole lot. Possibly why I like these just as much. The 1R I didn't like, too edgy, but people seem to mod it well and turn it into a very decent closed-back. The 1A I liked how it sounded and its comfort out of the box. And the same goes for the Z1R's. Are they worth $1500+? That's difficult to assess. I would say no, but they are so well built, so good sounding and presented well that I would pay the $1500. I'd feel more comfortable at the $800 or so price bracket (the same would apply to the Ether Flows C). I remember paying that for my Ultrasone Signature DJs and Pros (which I also like). But sadly, it's not about our comfort lol

    I would say that these are probably the most enjoyable and good sounding closed-back headphones I have tried. Currently in the lead (vs the Ether mentioned and the Sig DJs.)... spacious sound, great imaging, a bit of extra sub-bass which I really like, unoffensive highs and just really nice textured sound.

    Now, do note, I'm NOT your "typical SBAF audiophile"... I don't use open-backs (because I can't at work where I spend most of the time listening to music), I don't own high-end pieces (DACs/Amps/Cables/etc.), nor do I have golden ears :) But I like what I like and if you take a look at my closed-back history, I basically like "fun" headphones. Of course, that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate clarity, decent balance (i.e. I'm not an extreme basshead), etc. but, you have been warned.
     
  5. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I'd love to hear a production Atticus when that opportunity comes up.
     
  6. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    Nothing in particular. They are not poorly built (well, perhaps except that lame cardbox case) but taking off one pair and grabbing the other right after gives you a totally different feeling. There's a lot of plastic on the Senns, and while well used, it just doesn't feel the same. Minor details like the headband not even having size adjustment with a nice clicky feedback, etc.
    Released at different times and with different styles, but I compare them mostly because the price (here) is quite similar. Comfort is also poorer (except in hot summer days due to the open/alcantara) but both are quite comfortable in general.

    Both have their uses IMHO. Having something that gives you a feeling of full attention to detail in all areas of the product gives a nice coherence to the whole offer and a pleasant sense of quality that goes well with some audiophile gear. And while the case is not something one would take in a backpack, it's definitely efficient to store them at home and looks truly top notch (and durable). The whole thing fits together quite well.

    Following that example, the 1.600 EUR HD800S failed in that aspect for me. I don't have a fetish with headphone cases, but for that money, the cheap-looking cardboard box looked quite lame and fragile. In fact, the shipping guys probably dropped my package and that was enough to leave a dent on a corner of the case, with a wire sticking out.:p

    Still, that is not what is good about the Z1R, it was merely a comment on how the whole product seems consistent, including in presentation. The main aspect, the sound, is quite remarkable and I can see how they are becoming the favorite closed cans of several users who know all the heavyweights (and are selling some after getting it).

    I've kept the MDR-CD3000 for almost twenty years now and this is the first time I'm considering selling them. Slightly brighter signature with a grain that can be enjoyable sometimes and gives a pleasant illusion of extra detail, plus biocel drivers remain interesting...still, the Z1R is taking too much ear time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2016
  7. GelockS

    GelockS Friend

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    I forgot to post this here...

    Finally spent hours with both Sony and MrSpeakers closed-backs and I have to say, BOTH are excellent but different sounding headphones. I'm not going to spend time mentioning design, comfort and build since at this point everyone reading this thread is aware of both cans. So let's just jump to the sound.

    [​IMG]

    Ether Flows-C

    Quick impressions:

    Pros: Comfortable, wide sound stage, clear sounding.
    Cons: Price, sub-bass not as powerful (for my semi-basshead/basshead taste), a bit thin.

    No matter how you try to paint it, you WILL notice that the signature tends to hang in the "bright" zone. I had mentioned a while ago that the 3-6 Khz might be elevated and it definitely is. Measurements (of my very own headphones) show this, and it's clear as day especially when paired with crappy or hot recordings. Just trying The Cure - "Just like Heaven" is not a good feeling sadly... Now, with well recorded tracks, the bright/thin nature does not bother me at all. In fact, you can appreciate the texture and details showing you what the headphone is capable of. Does this mean that the headphone doesn't have bass? No, not at all. It's kind of a weird combination. I can enjoy Wiz Khalifa - "On my level" and get enough sub-bass and mid-bass and decent all around sound but if the track is, again, bright, then that frequency just OVERPOWERS everything else.

    Mids are actually a bit laid back when compared to the upper registers, and mid-high transition is not bad, but it's also a bit thin, which gives that impression of "Hey, I'm bright!!". :)

    I find the headphones totally enjoyable at lower volumes with those "hot" tracks, and can basically listen to every genre I like without having to swap them, or remove them (unlike other headphones I have tried). And that's basically what I end up doing.

    Imaging is as excellent as I have heard and instrument layering is very enjoyable. Tracks from Paquito D' Rivera, Buena Vista
    Social Club, Puya (a Salsa + Metal mashup), Juan Luis (), Mima (), etc. are so enjoyable that quite a few times I forgot I was actually listening in order to compare the headphones LOL. And with a lot of these, you just forget about the "thinner" mids and sound sig and just enjoy. Sound stage seems wider on the Ethers.


    Sony MDR-Z1R


    Quick impressions:

    Pros: Comfortable but more weighty than the Ethers, clear sounding, great imaging, BIG BASS
    Cons: Price, BIG BASS :p

    First thing you WILL notice, BIG BASS! Like, ear tingling bass massage with the "correct" tracks. But let's back out for a bit. The Sony's are actually very nice sounding, and in direct comparison the combination of powerful sub-bass/mid-bass with a warm tinge on the mids, makes it sound really different than the Ethers. If you tend to prefer bassy signatures, just don't look any further, this IS your headphone. Now, you might think that the big bass + thicker mids == laid-back treble... ermmm.. NO! :( Similar to the Ether, it seems it's a bit boosted as well, and in fact, I can actually listen to a bit more pronounced sibilance on these! The saving grace is that it doesn't sound thin due to the aforementioned bass/mids combination. But, again, crappy or hot recordings will not sound as good as you expect. And if you have lots of those, then I URGE you to NOT spend this type of money on headphones and go with something like the Sony MDR-1A (or Ultrasone Performance 840s). Still, I find myself not changing volumes as much with these guys on. So peak doesn't bother me as much but mainly what I want to say is that NONE of these are perfect...

    Surprisingly, I feel the mids on the Sony's are actually a bit more forward and it's noticeable on vocals. Not only do they sound warmer, they sound more up-front. Feels a bit more intimate on tracks such as Lakes - The Ghost and The Man and some Alison Krauss songs. Not a con, just thought I'd mention it.

    I tend to crank these headphones more than the Ethers as I find them a bit more addictive. Tracks just have more "presence"...

    Imaging is excellent as well and sound stage seems a bit narrower than the Ethers. Something I did notice though is that, again, I'm making bass the 'culprit', sound seems to wander a bit more giving the impression as if a "3D" effect is turned on. It's like a combination of low decay that creates a bit of echo-y-like/reverb-y sound. Could be the cup design as well. Still, it's not too much of a detriment and in fact, it might aid or provide a bit more "life" to some classical tracks and old guitar driven music (i.e. presence :p)

    Tracks Tested:

    Wiz Khalifa - "Roll up"/"On my Level"
    Caina - "Bailando Va"
    J-King and Maximan - "Dura, Dura"
    Jon Cleary - "When you get back"
    Deadmau5 - "Strobe"
    Juan Luis Juancho - "Pum Pum Pum"
    Lakes - "The Ghost and the Man"
    Mew - "Water Slides"
    Mima - "Mima"
    Netsky - "Let's Leave Tomorrow"
    Buena Vista Social Club - "Chan Chan"/"Candela"
    The Postal Service - "Clark Gable"
    Puya - "Si Aja"
    Gets/Gilberto - "Vivo Sonhando"
    The National - "I need my girl"
    The Roots - "Lighthouse"
    Thursday - "For the Workforce, Drowning"
    Icaro Azul - "Las cosas estan mal"
    Walk the Moon - "Shut up and DaNCE"
    Zoe = "10 Am"
    DJ Koze - "Homesick"
    Disclosure - "Latch"
    Miguel Bose - "COmo un Lobo"

    among others...

    Extra Notes/Intangibles
    • Ether Flows-Cs can be easily "tuned". Dan (MrSpeakers) sent me a different set of pads (I believe the ones that will be shipping with the Electrostatic offerings) that do alter the sound a bit. What it does? Sound stage doesn't seem affected to me but HIGHS are indeed tamed just a bit. I could actually stand those crappy tracks without lowering volume BUT do note that you still get the 'thin' mids and the presence is NOT as strong as with the Sony's. Thing is, it sounds like I'm making the case that the Ether's lack bass quantity but really, it's just that the Sony's are TOO bassy. Not only do the Ether have decent bass, it actually less "one tone"/more detailed.
    • Flows might be better supported as well. I have never dealt with Sony, but I'm pretty sure that if something "comes loose" on the Flows, Dan and Company will sort you up.
    • Too much leather on the Sonys... not sure about you guys, but I USE my headphones a lot and I'm afraid that so much stuff (headband) might deteriorate, as well as the pads. And as of now, unlike Beyer, I haven't seen any extra accessories nor parts for these Signature cans. Hopefully they will become available... but the other thing is... price. Will a set of earpads cost $300?!?! $400?!?! (I don't doubt it).
    • Ethers DEFINITELY need a good amp in order to make them sing. The MDRs, pffttt, even a phone can drive them and you WILL enjoy the sound coming out of them.
    Diminishing returns...

    Seriously, it's a real thing... ;)

    [​IMG]

    My current home headphone is one of my favorites, Ultrasone Signature DJs. Used them so much that I basically destroyed the pads.
    Have them paired with some pads from Zach (ZMF) and they work well and are very comfortable. These are V-shaped with big bass
    and treble, decent mids and directly comparing against the Z1Rs... results are NOT that far off! Sig DJs bass is muddier and highs are definitely not as clear and textured but other than that, I found myself enjoying the tracks the same.

    Take into consideration that Sig DJs == ATH-M50 but "better" and you start seeing why Tyll might mention the things he said on the Ether Review (that probably applies to ALL closed-backs).

    Price really becomes an issue when the differences have to be measured in micro-details, textures, and clarity. Basically I can live with: Ultrasone Perf 840/Sig DJs/Sony MDR-1A/Beyer DT1770/etc. and WILL NOT be far of what the Sony offers... (you will be far off from the Ethers because their signature is not "bassy" unlike all of those I just mentioned. But if you have tried Beyers T5p's first gen, it's a similar taste of the Ethers... MrSpeakers cans being superior though).

    Am I saying that you should skip these and just buy cheaper closed-backs?!?! LOL. NO! You might need to experience these at one time or another in order to base your own comparisons, but I'm just putting the note out there because you might expect to be BLOWN AWAY and you might be disappointed instead if you have lived on the low-fi/mid-fi bracket and suddenly jump to these higher-end offerings.

    Conclusion

    Thoroughly enjoyed both headphones as I believe they offer what we crave on a closed-back headphone regarding imaging, clarity, texture and 'dynamics'. Both are tuned differently as mentioned. If you are in the "I love bass camp but want more of everything", then you know what to pick. At this point, I'm not even sure which headphone I will stick with (I cannot "afford" having both, plus I'll probably use the $ to buy more watches... LOL) but I'm pretty sure I'll be more than satisfied with whichever I end up with. (will make my mind later in the week probably).

    Bass quantity: Signature DJ == Sony MDR-Z1R --> Ether Flow C
    Bass quality: Ether Flow C --> Sony MDR-Z1R --> Signature DJ
    Mids presentation: Sony MDR-Z1R --> Ether Flow C --> Signature DJ
    Soundstage/imaging: Sony MDR-Z1R --> Ether Flow C --> Signature DJ
    Highs: Sony MDR-Z1R ==Ether Flow C --> Signature DJ
    Sound Isolation/Leakage: Signature DJ --> Sony MDR-Z1R --> Ether Flow C
    Fun Factor: Signature DJ --> Sony MDR-Z1R --> Ether Flow C
    Price: Signature DJ --> Ether Flow C --> Sony MDR-Z1R


    Thanks.
     
  8. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    Angel,

    Thanks a lot of the write up bro. NICE!
    How would you put transparency?
    A guess
    Sony>Ether>Signature DJ??
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  9. Derf

    Derf Acquaintance

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    What amp were you using to drive these?
     
  10. GelockS

    GelockS Friend

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    Sony's can sound a bit congested or maybe just not as clear in the lower mid region (compared to the Ethers). On the other hand, the Ethers can sound a bit grainy, but other than that, both are detailed and clean enough to my ears. And I can surely say that these 2 are probably the best Closed-backs I've heard. I would actually stick with both, but can't...sadly. I would easily put them that order or maybe even: Sony==Ether>Signature DJ

    BTW, Angel, not Ramon. LOL ;)
     
  11. GelockS

    GelockS Friend

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    Very simple stuff (think I mentioned it before).

    PC --> Schiit Modi 2U --> Burson Soloist SL --> Headphones
    Phone --> ifi Micro iDSD --> Headphones
     
  12. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    Sorry bro... Its been a minute.... I don't know where I got that from.... :confused:


    Thanks Angel!
     
  13. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    Great write up GelockS.

    There are parts available for the Z1R by the way, and they will probably be available for a couple of years after Sony discontinues them. Some people think they will become some sort of R10 classic in years and are so worried about having spares that they already bought extra sets of pads (they're not cheap, $300 or so). A poor user even forgot the pads have two models and bought two Left or two Right. :)

    I actually like the amount of leather on the Z1R and its quality. The overall feeling of the thing is that they might last a couple of decades easily, the structure feels really well machined, no gaps/wobble/etc.

    As for the bass, they do have a bassy, warmish nature, but I find the bass quality to be great. Tight, fast and never overwhelming or intrusive on low-mid detail, except in tracks that are already very bassy by nature and will sound that way with any gear.

    That along with its midrange and the soundstage/imaging get them a pretty fun speaker-like signature, or at least that's how my ears hear it. The slightly softened treble is also great for long listening sessions, it's not too dark and despite the smoothness has all the detail and resolution that something like the HD800/800S will reveal. I did a lot of A/B with the 800 (I know, totally different, but...) and kept trying to catch the Z1R losing midrange and treble detail but they kept surprising me. It's all there, just without the grain.

    Still very pleased with them. Not perfect but way high on the group of best closed cans available. Ignoring the subjective aspects of sound and just in terms of build quality I think I even bump them directly to #1 on my WoF.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2017
  14. imac2much

    imac2much Friend

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    Have any other SBAFs had experience with the Z1R? It sounds like it has a nice bassy yet clear signature that I like (my current headphones are the Elear). I don't have golden ears and don't listen to a lot of vocals lately so don't notice the upper mid suckout too much (though I did notice when swapping back and forth with my HD650 on some songs), but I'm considering upgrading to the Z1R for the better isolation and comfort (reduced weight). I tried them on when visiting Seoul and they had a great rich tonality that I loved while being much more comfortable than my Elear. And surprisingly even though they were closed, I didn't find its soundstage to be that different from the Elear.

    It's too bad because I was really hoping the Elear would be my end-game, but its 450g weight and tight clamp is slowly getting on my nerves. And while the tonal balance doesn't bother me right now since I'm mostly listening to EDM and OSTs at the moment, I don't like thinking that I will regret it whenever I want to listen to other genres in the future...
     
  15. WNovizar

    WNovizar Facebook Friend

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    Well gbeast, beowulf, GelockS are all friends here and all of them have heard Z1R
     
  16. imac2much

    imac2much Friend

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    I know, I value their opinions which is why I decided to bother giving the Z1R a listen when I had the chance. Although I might be wrong but I don't think gbeast posted his impressions... I think I have pretty similar sound preferences as him so I'd be interested in his thoughts and comparisons to the Elear and ZMF headphones.
     
  17. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    I'm surprised on how little activity they get around here. It's a huge thread on HF already. After 15 or 16 years this hobby (at least at HF) I truly stopped being vulnerable to hype trains a long time ago. Also started being more minimalist and not wanting to spend a penny in amping or sources unless the gain is very obvious. Cables, burn-in, don't even get me there.

    But that said, I think I got the 2nd unit that popped on the HF thread (maybe the first that was paid and not a demo) and after 4 months now, I regret nothing. To me at least they are worth hype as some of the best TOTL closed cans in the market. We know how "the best" never works out, so, "one of the best". I think value is just great considering sound/build. Would not have sold my HD 800S otherwise, although I still miss them in a way (soundstage width/positioning, mostly).

    Comfort on the Z1R is great. Which is a bit surprising given size and the lack of a suspension band. But it works out well. The only complaint for me will be when summer arrives and well... closed+leather pads.

    I'm looking for the Z1R IEM version now. The SE846 failed. Going to try the CA Andromeda and XBA-Z5 now.
     
  18. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    There's quite a bit of dislike/underwhelming attitude for the Z7 here (maybe technically Changstar), so a successor at 3 times the price threw up quite a few red flags, including @Marvey. Maybe someday SBAF will get a test unit. I sure hope so...
     
  19. imac2much

    imac2much Friend

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    Thanks for the replies guys. Yeah I'm honestly a bit bummed that the Elear is gradually causing some discomfort for me as I didn't want to buy any more headphones haha. I sold the Omni for better comfort, and I guess the Elear is great compared to the heavier Omni but now I want something less than 400g. I'm also realizing with a kid and a newborn on the way that closed headphones can be useful when I'm working in the office den haha.

    With the brief listening test I had of the Z1R I was really impressed at its soundstage compared to my Elear and HD650 so I don't see too many drawbacks of it's closed nature. Now I just need to wait until I can get them for around $1000-1500... :) well a man can dream.
     
  20. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    Yup, that was a frequent concern and source of jokes when they first appeared, especially because the drivers have the same size so people assumed it was just a Z7 in a diferent shell. Fortunately that didn't turn out to be the case. Some users have/had the Z7 or heard it before and it seems to be a totally different can in refinement (for example, bass in quality and not just quantity).

    Nothing like listening to know, of course.
     

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