System Synergy - Special Sound

Discussion in 'General Audio Gear Discussion' started by atomicbob, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. audiofrk

    audiofrk Guest

    Damn I need an amp while I wait for the carbon and I eventually want a hd650 too was hoping to get the val to tide me over
     

  2. AustinValentine

    AustinValentine Friend

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    If you need a tide over with the Paradox, the Vali does just about as well as the Val 2. (Then, sell it and get a Val 2 for your HD650 after the LC arrives.)
     
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  3. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    Yggy > KGSShv > Stax SR 009

    Yggy > ZD Super > HD 800 (w/ Anax 2.0)
     
  4. johnjen

    johnjen Friend

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    So bob I assume you're using the phase reversal trick in this system.
    Does this 'trick' provide an even greater improvement over the mousai 192dac based system?

    JJ
     
  5. insidious meme

    insidious meme Friend

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    Right now I have an HE-560 that I had recabled so I could use balanced outs. When the HD-650 makes it here, I'll have them balanced as well. And this will most likely be the only changes I'll make to my desktop system for a long while.
     
  6. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    I haven't tried polarity reversal with this setup yet. It sounded very good with more dimension and depth without it than the MSD192 with the phase reversal. That will be another day's experiment. I have a considerable backlog of experiments. No doubt, the MSD192 is an exceptional performer, even better at such a price point. Will want to compare the Bifrost MB to the MSD192.
     
  7. johnjen

    johnjen Friend

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    I had anticipated that Gumby would have bested the msd192 and to hear that the phase trick hasn't been applied yet means the difference will be all the more interesting...

    JJ
     
  8. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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    Uberfrost > Ember > HD600
    (Ember on high gain, high Z, with a GE 6DJ8)
    How synergistic would you guys count this setup?
     

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  9. Judeus

    Judeus Almost "Made"

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    Well have to do some "synergistic research"
     
  10. sashafuckinggrey

    sashafuckinggrey Acquaintance

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    Can somebody explain me why there is a project sunrise in the setup when its basically aimed for low impendance cans?
     
  11. johnjen

    johnjen Friend

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    It's a mystery!

    Until you hear for yourself…

    JJ o_O
     
  12. sashafuckinggrey

    sashafuckinggrey Acquaintance

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    Thank you, that was really helpful.
     
  13. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    It is not aimed for low impedance cans only. It has the following attributes which I find very useful and part of the system chain that produces good sound:

    1. Non FeedBack (NFB) gain
    2. Class A OTL output
    3. selectable output resistance 1, 32 or 69 ohms
    4. 4 - 350 KHz -3 dB bandwidth with 32 ohm load (can be better with higher impedance loads)
    5. Power output capable of suitably driving 32 to 300 ohm impedance headphones
    6. Will handle almost any 9 pin tube and most 8 pin tubes with an adapter socket
    7. tube employed at what it does best - voltage gain
    8. mosfets employed at what they do best - current gain
    9. sounds very good in the system described in the original post

    My reference system is an Eddie Current ZDSE, a Yggdrasil and a large library of cans of which my favorites are HD800, HD650, HD600, TH900 and AH-D5000.
     
  14. FlySweep

    FlySweep Friend

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    Bob, do you know what voltage the tubes are run at? The CTH runs tubes at 80v.. and the Valhalla 2 runs them at around 60v, I think.
     
  15. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    PS-III runs the tube at 24VDC. I was skeptical at first about such a low plate voltage. I spent time looking at tube plate characteristics. But the plate current requirement is so infinitesimal due to a nearly direct connection with the mosfet gate that it works quite well. Plate current appears to be approximately 400 uA.
     
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  16. sashafuckinggrey

    sashafuckinggrey Acquaintance

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    Thank you, but i am still not getting something, it deals just around 100mw to HD 650 and i thought the synergy was meant with these cans included, but can it trully make hd 650 when the power is so low? Audio newb here.
     
  17. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    The Sennheiser HD650 has a sensitivity of 102 dB / mW. 100 mW can drive the HD650 to 122 dB SPL. That is VERY LOUD! Listening at a fairly loud 100 dB SPL average with music having a 10 dB SPL crest factor, which would want to produce 110 dB SPL on peaks, would only require between 0.63 mW average and 6.3 mW peaks. Far less demand than the 100 mW of which the PS-III is capable.
     
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  18. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Valhalla 2 runs at 200V rail, 120V plate. Similar to Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2, except those amps use regulated HV supplies, while Valhalla 2 is RC-smoothed.

    No starved-plate amps for Schiit.
     
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  19. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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    I don't think discussions on power have much meaningful bearing on volume, simply because getting adequate volume isn't an issue even for say, onboard PC amps.
    In terms of synergy, it might be more relevant to question the adage that tube amps provide more voltage swing than SS, and whether this voltage swing is indeed suitable for high-Z dynamic headphones? That seems to be the general wisdom (and I know I've followed it).
     
  20. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    It always amazes me at how much Voltage, Current, Power, everyone thinks their headphones need to sound good. We are talking headphones that are very close to the human auditory system and capable of easily producing high, damaging, Sound Pressure Levels. Here is a chart that will allow comparison of various popular headphones. Note the Vpp and Ipp are for 110 dB SPL. VERY LOUD. For the dynamic headphones those parameters don't come even close to the limits of most headphone amps. In fact, having too much voltage or current available can raise the noise floor as nothing comes for free in design tradeoffs. Only the planars offer a bit of a challenge for voltage and current drive. Also note that the values calculated are for nominal impedance, ignoring any impedance bump(s).

    upload_2015-10-13_7-37-16.png

    Edited for clarification and to correct typos. Chart updated for labeling clarity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
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