System Synergy - Special Sound

Discussion in 'General Audio Gear Discussion' started by atomicbob, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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  2. johnjen

    johnjen Friend

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    As I have mentioned previously the "hard to put the headphones down and come back to reality" or what I have termed, listening becomes 'IMPERATIVE' is becoming more and more common.

    The latest Jggy review over on the Computer Audio site, also brings this topic up.
    It is a trait I see as being a consequence of having both the time and amplitude of the reconstructed analog signal aligned more closely to its source.
    At least that is what I have observed as improvements are made and then hearing the results over time and as many experiments are performed.

    Another way to describe this is the acoustic energy that is delivered to our ears is more focused, and time and amplitude aligned, thus the acoustic power is more closely 'in synch' with the way the original musical instrument created the sound in the first place which we perceive as being more involving and 'real'.

    This ability to more closely focus the primary and related harmonics frequencies back to their 'origin' can be addicting and can lead to a degree of involvement that is captivating, where it is rather difficult to stop listening.
    Thus my term 'IMPERATIVE'.

    JJ
     
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  3. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Well, you got me to order one. I have been enjoying the smooth sounds of the Havana with my Asgard2 and He-400s, temporarily. Let's hope the Bimby can give me close to the same level of plankton and space as my X-sabre on my speaker setup. Then I can use it on both setups.
     
  4. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    Soon as the Gungnir is out in black, I'm pulling the trigger. I've worked more than 100 extra hours ("was it really worth it?" I can hear my dad say) and I'm ready to throw it to those cool cats at Schiit. Combining it with the Carbon is sure to have at least a bit of synergy if Bob's Bimby/Crimson combo is faring well. I'll definitely do an A/B between the Modi and Gumby.
     
  5. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    I'm betting on synergy between both GuMB / BiMB and the Liquid Carbon. Have one coming soon (as do you I believe.) But if someone required me to downsize my sound toys, I'd fight hardest to keep the BiMB Liquid Crimson HD650/HD800 setup, at this time.
     
  6. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    Don't you have a Yggy? You do a lot of talk about the other two but I haven't heard you mention 'the best DAC in the world' for quite a while.
    And indeed I do! (#6)
     
  7. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    What follows is deep in personal preference territory, so purist objectivists be forewarned (not aimed at anyone in particular.)

    I use the yggdrasil and an Auralic Vega for day job audio research and production work as neutral, exemplary representatives of multibit and delta-sigma DACs. When it comes time for recreational listening I like to turn off the analytical section of my brain and just enjoy music. GuMB and BiMB both are better for this purpose, for me, with their slight loss of resolution and slight leaning towards euphonic presentation. If listening to well recorded and transferred hi-res format music, then the GuMB has more to offer than the BiMB. GuMB also has balanced outputs which have technical advantages. However, I have a lot of CDs in my collection that date back to the beginning of digital time and were played originally on a CDP101 (yeah, I'm a fossil.) Many of these benefit from the multibit magic combined with just a touch less resolution. Several nights ago I listened (on the BiMB+LiquidCrimson+HD650) to four CDs I hadn't heard in 20 years:

    Couldn't Stand the Weather - Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble
    Brothers in Arms - Dire Straits
    I Robot - Alan Parson's Project
    Exsultate Jubilate - Mozart - Emma Kirkby - Christopher Hogwood - Acadamy of Ancient Music

    I was shocked at fidelity I perceived. I don't remember those recordings sounding this good way back when. If the CDP101 had the BiMB DAC section it would still be in my rack of equipment. Aside, now I wish I had that transport to test the digital output through the BiMB. Alas, it is long gone. When using single ended, unbalanced input amps, I haven't heard a significant difference between the BiMB and GuMB so I don't bother to disconnect the GuMB from the rack and use it as I evaluate a given amp in a recreational setting. Another, probably expectation bias oriented reason, is the BiMB represents a true engineering achievement in carefully balancing so many design constraints to deliver the fidelity, the multibit magic that shocked me at a $600 price point. This is prompting me to pull more CDs from the stacks and re-explore my library, much to the distraction from other activities (such as measurements, for those of you wondering when I might post any more of those.)
     
  8. TomNC

    TomNC Rando

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    @atomicbob

    Now that you have both the yggy and Vega, could you try to discern any differences between them? I have gumby and listened to a Vega (with Taurus MK ii) at two occasions. My perception is that the Vega exceeds in imaging than the gumby. The borders and texture of individual sounds are better defined through the Vega without oversharpening or etching than the gumby. Otherwise I like the gumby as it is. What do you think about imaging performance of yggy in comparison to the Vega?
    Thanks.
     
  9. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    Pff, don't bother with us anymore, have fun with that Crimson and Bimby, and pull some more of those bitchin' CDs out! I'm definitely expecting to be glued to my seat when I've got the Gumby and Carbon here, and knowing you're enjoying your setup to the point it's distracting you from 'work' makes me excited. I already love my Modi/Magni setup, but I'm guessing my next one'll be a fantastic duo. Thanks for those impressions Bob!
     
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  10. SKiring

    SKiring Wow, I made it this far without being a friend?

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    Your Latest Trick and The Telegraph Road are now in my main cycles, hell the whole album. So I'm gonna say I'm with you fully on this one.

    Same problem here! Even a track like Sade's - Smooth Operator has never sounded more sexy and even more detailed than I can possible remember. I really need to some direct comparisons to the vinyl for some more personal enjoyment.

    Also thanks again, your impressions and @Bill-P's made me pull the gun on Bimby blind. Never looked back to D/S or even its bigger brothers since.
     
  11. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    Which filter and what clock mode were you using on the Vega when you made your comparisons?
    Something to keep in mind. One DAC may excel at imaging. Another at resolution. Pick any parameter and you can usually find a DAC that has that one parameter nailed. Achieving a good balance among all the design tradeoffs to give the best overall performance, one that is balanced, is one of the many achievements accomplished by the Schiit team with their MB DACs.
     
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  12. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    Have you ever noticed a click at 5:14 on Your Latest Trick? I ripped that track on my CD several times and the click was there every time. No scratches on the CD nor any imperfections on the aluminum layer that I could see under magnification. So I had to import the track into my DAW and declick it myself. Two spots requiring adjustment of approximately 4 mS in one location and 7 samples in another.

    My opinion, you can't go wrong owning a Bifrost MB. Even if one decides to move up the Schiit chain, it will always be useful.
     
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  13. SKiring

    SKiring Wow, I made it this far without being a friend?

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    Well I never used too, haha! It's definitely there, I just tested in on Tidal, my 192khz, my 96khz and regular FLAC version and it's always there... Interesting, now I must say I had to really focus to hear it, good ears!
     
  14. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    My ears are sensitized to hear clicks, pops, and especially mouth noises given the amount of voice over editing I perform. Here is what I found and fixed in the rip to my server. There is a 4 mS dropout, a 13 sample pop, and a 2 sample aberration all in the 5:15 second period. Here are some DAW screen shots:

    Overview:
    01 Dire Straits - Your Latest Trick_clicks_at_5_15 overview.png

    Zoom of all three disturbances:
    03 Dire Straits - Your Latest Trick_clicks_at_5_15 zoom 1.png

    Zoom of 4 mS dropout:
    04 Dire Straits - Your Latest Trick_clicks_at_5_15 4mS drop out.png

    Zoom of 13 sample pop:
    05 Dire Straits - Your Latest Trick_clicks_at_5_15 13 sample click.png

    Zoom of 2 sample aberration:
    06 Dire Straits - Your Latest Trick_clicks_at_5_15 2 sample click.png
     
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  15. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Quick question on the Bimby? did soundstage get wider after some burn in hours?
     
  16. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    What I experienced is the immersive realism increases after power aging.
     
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  17. Xeno

    Xeno Rando

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    So how much does Zout play a role in synergy?

    Hypothetical situation. Headphone A has an impedance of 300 ohms. Amp 1 has a Zout of 3 ohms, Amp 2 has a Zout of 15 ohms and Amp 3 50 ohms.

    In my limited understanding Amp 2 is most synergistic, Amp 1 next, and Amp 3 last or not at all as it is above 1/8 the headphone impedance.
     
  18. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    I know this sounds heretical but the GuMB is stealing more listening time than the Yggy. Man, these days (especially holiday time), just enjoy the music and to hell with analysis ! So,

    1. GuMB + Black Widow + orthos
    2. GuMB + ZDS + Senns (HD xx0)
    3. BiMB + Cavalli Liquid Carbon + Fostex TH X00 (this has been a revelation; context being that I received the TH X00 only yesterday).
     
  19. mtoc

    mtoc SBAF's Resident Shit-Stirrer

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    Why prefer Gumby? They've all said Ygg is totally another level...
     
  20. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    Well, I did qualify that statement by saying that I go to the GuMB for listening to music without an overly critical bent of mind (especially holiday time) and "looking" for nuances. Yggy is still the next level in refinement, detail etc etc.
     

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