The Game of Thrones Thread (With Spoilers)

Tyrion was clearly unhappy about the union. Certainly a foreshadowing of problems to come.

I sincerely hope @landroni is wrong. The battle of the Ice-zombies v the living IS typical fantasy and I've loved this series precisely because it ISN'T typical. My best hope is that the Great War is resolved quickly and that the rest of the season deals with the political fallout and settling of Westeros as a result. I know it's likely a pipe dream, but I'm sticking to it. My one hope is that, while a Song of Ice and Fire can be taken to mean dragons v ice zombies, there is evidence enough to suggest that it's actually a reference to Jon himself. He was born of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryan). Or a reference to Dany and Jon, perhaps. Regardless, it leaves open the possibility that dragons v ice zombies isn't the be all and end all of the story.

And yes, we know that the end of the show and the end of Martin's novels (assuming they are ever written) will be pretty much the same. This is why we're seeing such inconsistencies throughout the past few seasons. He left them with major plot points to land on and when they get there it's great! That's what we saw in the finale. The problem is that, since the books aren't written, the show writers are having to fill in the gaps. They don't have the time luxury that Martin has to figure out plausible solutions to some of these plot points, so they rely on tricks and gimmicks that aren't plausible and that don't ring true.

For instance, the writers clearly have no CLUE what to do with Bran. They knew he had to reveal the truth about Jon's lineage in the final episode, but the fact that he's in Winterfell should mean anyone can go to him at any time and get all the answers. But, that would obviously ruin the show, so what do we do? Let's just have him conveniently disappear for a couple of episodes until we need him to expose Littlefinger.

This is also why Arya's storyline with the House of Black and White was such a mess.

And on and on...

@Gaspasser ...tagging you simply because you asked about the meaning of A Song of Ice and Fire earlier in the thread, so this is a little more detail for you.

 

Agreed with the writers making Bran into an awko-taco of a character. He's entirely inconsistent. Beginning of the season? "Hi Sansa. I saw you get raped by Ramsey. You were beautiful."

Final episode? "Holy shitballs guys we have to tell Jon He's actually a Targ, HE DESERVES TO KNOW"

If they wanted to portray him as emotionally inconsistent, they shouldn't have spent the last two seasons establishing that he has the emotional range of a brick who's disengaged from even beginning to care about people. Do a scene where he's by himself laughing, then crying, then screaming, etc. Show some internal conflict. Then it'd at least be explainable why he's sometimes leaning towards Brandon Stark, and other times the Three Eyed Raven.

I'd hate for him to become the writers tool of choice to force exposition and the plot along without breaking any (more) laws of physics ala rocket-ravens.

 

Though I do want to say, that while Bran is completely misused in the show, the scenes with him and Sam were AWESOME.

Sam's facial expressions and reactions were priceless.

Two new ideas for spinoffs:

1) Sam and Bran. Just have them in room, talking. Pure comedy gold.
2) The Misadventures of Robin Arryn. Now that he's in charge of the Vale, things are about to get weird. Wes Anderson should direct.

 

Yeah, @ultrabike . One of the theories is that Tyrion is in love with Dany. I think the books could very well go that route (based on an old outline that Martin sent to his editors), but it doesn't look as if the TV show is. If so, they've done a TERRIBLE job of setting it up.

My interpretation of the show is that Tyrion is more worried that love will get mixed up into the equation and that poor decisions will be made as a result.

 

Totally agree. Sam is my personal Most Entertaining Character that I Couldn't Stand in Previous Seasons. I've loved every scene he's been in this season. After the first two episodes I was totally ready to watch an entire show based on Sam attending maester medical school.

 

Bran's character makes more sense if you've read the books. He's -- or at least was for some time -- in shitloads of internal conflict, but this makes not for great action scenes. In the books he was absolutely horrified at the thought of becoming the 3-eyed raven, he who always wanted to be a soldier but was unfit for the task. It was depressing, truly, and well in line with his current predicament.

To understand him better think of him as a living god who has on his shoulders the weight of the past, the present and the future. He's reached a sort of impassive attitude of having witnessed unthinkable horrors and extreme joy, everywhere, everytime. He's not really a Stark anymore, but a protector of the realm. And in a way his interest is to restore the status quo ante. But he doesn't really have brothers and sisters anymore, can't be grateful to people (witness Sam -- good man -- and Meera -- good girl) nor have any desire for vengeance (setting up Littlefinger was merely an act of restoring balance, and with little to do with seeking family vengeance). That in the world of the living he's a Stark and can sit at the table with the Lady of Winterfell is something that make things merely convenient for him to achieve his ends.

 

Just watched the finale proper once I got home... what the f**k has happened to the GoT that I have come to love?

• Everything is just disjointed, bordering on incoherent. The scriptwriter deserves to be fired. Lines alternate between being cheesy, wooden, cliched, and downright cringeworthy. Camerawork looks like it's been done by some random Joe mucking around on some half-serious budget production.

• What the absolute f**k are the Unsullied doing standing there as the first guests at the party? Who even told them about the party? Where to stand in formation? Did Euron's glorious fleet simply let them saunter off? Why hadn't Greyworm stirred up a rebellion by then, given that his benevolent Queen had conveniently left them trapped for 3 episodes behind enemy lines?

• Sit the f**k down Euron. You picked the most random, uncool, and inexplicable moment to whip your dick out for... errr... still not sure for what reason tbh.

• Not sure about the rest of you but I'd be quite a bit more in awe of two bloody dragons than I would be with a lone wight. What Qyburn did with the Mountain was much ten times more impressive than some weak reanimated skeleton.

• Oh and by the way Cersei your Queensguard kinda sucks. What the hell are they here for, if they casually allow a wight to dance right up to your face?

• Alright, Jon Snow. We get you are an honorable lad. But that was a cringeworthy and boring speech. If you weren't Azor Ahai I'd have called it pretentious. And you'd make for the worst politician ever, let alone KOTN.

• The interaction between Cersei and Tyrion had some promise. But oh well... the same problems as usual: lack of authenticity and flow you'd expect from earlier seasons. Dull, wooden, devoid of wit.

• "If I had trusted you everything would have been different" -- Yea, no shit. There wouldn't have been some colossally stupid plan to take an All-Star squad up north for a suicide mission. You'd still have Viserion. And the Wall would still have been standing.

• Yay, Cersei is back. Wow she changed her mind and agreed to a truce. There's surely nothing suspicious and we'll all go up back satisfied and happy. No doubt she's always been an honorable and sane person. Haha.

• Sansa and Petr's 1v1 conversation was just contrived.

• "But if we're gonna be allies in this war, it's important for the North to see us as Allies" -- still trying to figure out the logic in this, other than an excuse to get laid.

• In a episode of copious amounts of cringe, Theon and Jon's 'heartfelt' convo was right up there.

• Theon and the random Ironborn behave and converse like two random teenage punks, picking a pointless scuffle for zero reason. We are supposed to accept that the rest of the Ironborn are sufficiently 'wowed' by this singular, brave, amazing surge of masculinity by Theon? Really???

• Deus Ex Machina... again.

• Aiden Gillen is a great actor. Petr Baelish was an absolute dick but somehow I'm a little bummed that he's out of the game.

• Last scene with Jamie and Cersei is the only wholly good one in the entire episode. Reminiscent of the best bits in previous seasons.

• Samwell Tarly comes f'ing sauntering back to Winterfell: "oh hai Bran!". The almighty 3-eyed raven who took 6 years of pain trudging up in the frigid north to morph into his ultimate form makes some lame-ass schoolboy mistake, and ends up one-upped by Gilly the Great.

• Okay, I lied. Dany and Jon's scene was the best. Not ashamed to admit I watched it on repeat.

• I have a bad feeling that Tyrion reasoning with Cersei was deliberately left out. His relevance as Hand of the Queen has been seriously undermined by Jon Snow, and whether for altruistic or selfish reasons, I'm guessing a bad ending is in store on this front

 

A few (or eight) points:

1) Yes, Euron left the Unsullied stranded. He would have lost a battle on land so he burned their ships and ran. We are left to assume that Dany had her fleet pick them up and bring them back sometime in the past 3 episodes. Fair enough. Considering some of the much larger timing issues, I have no issues with this one.

2) Euron's character has been handled terribly. He's purely there for entertainment value and has no depth or reason. We agree here.

3) Cersei's gueen guard was as shocked and frozen as everyone else. Silly nit to pick, I think. I agree that this entire plan is crap writing, but once you arrive at the dragonpit and put the improbability of the setup behind you, the events in THIS episode make sense in isolation.

4) Agree that people are foolish to trust Cersei, and we may find out in the next season that Tyrion hasn't bought the story after all. But, Cersei manipulated him pretty masterfully. She WANTED him to know that she was pregnant...her putting her hand on her stomach was no mistake. Tyrion thinks that the only humanity Cersei has is when it comes to her children, so I can see this making him more likely to accept her change of heart.

5) Of course the boat ride is an excuse for boat sex. But, the logic isn't hard to see. If she comes rolling in on dragons it will confirm every pre-conceived notion the North already has. Makes sense to me.

6) I love the Theon stuff. I think his acting has been pretty stellar and his character arc has been one of the more meaningful ones.

7) It makes perfect sense that Bran would overlook things. When one can see EVERYTHING, it might be reasonable that you'll miss a thing or two. He saw the secretive birth and made assumptions. Being able to see everything doesn't automatically grant you the power of interpretation, too.

8) While the character may be dead, we shouldn't assume Baelish is out of the show. Arya sure could make some good use of his face, don't you think?

 

While I understand the show-runners apparent desire to wrap-up GOT as quickly as possible and get on with other projects - the reduction in screen time, this year and probably next year as well, has seriously compromised the quality of the show. To me the show now seems to be a Cliff Notes version compared to the early seasons.

The areas where the show previously excelled - political intrigue, complex characters with murky motivations, warring houses, memorable villains and a likable, noble, identifiable Stark family, trying to survive in a unfriendly world, were IMHO, the parts of the show that really hooked the fans. While the show had fantasy elements, these were a smaller part of the show content. I think this season has lost most of these elements in favor of :

- larger set piece battles. - These are nice in moderation but having multiple of these in a season seems to diminish their overall impact.
- consolidated focus on Jon and Dany. - I understand the need for this from a plot perspective, but Kit and Emilia's acting chops cannot compete with most of the other actors on GOT. Their scenes always seem the weakest to me.
- more dependence on fantasy elements - again i understand the plot requires the confrontation with the dragons vs ice zombies, but once the initial zombie shock was provided in Hardhome, these scenes have been rather a big yawn. My expectation for the final season will be that they will play an even greater role, which will be to its detriment.
- lots of character mash-ups and reunions. Many of which have been fun and humorous (Davos-Gendry and the Hound with pretty much everyone he meets), but some have just been plain strange (Sansa-Bran, Sansa-Arya, the seven samurai beyond the Wall) and have been rushed to the point that there was really no emotional payoff from them.
- the underdog Starks have transformed from being our surrogate heroes into a face-swapping ninja killer, a god-like all knowing tree, a resurrected warrior-savior and a politically manipulative wannabe queen (ok -being a bit mean to Sansa here). tbh - Sophie and Masie's acting has been one of the standout parts of GOT for the last few seasons).
- all the remaining principle human protagonists have now consolidated into a simple Cersei vs rest of the world confrontation. (I will miss the political shenanigans from past years)

I guess I am just lamenting the demise of the longer dialogue driven and complex aspects of the show, that have been superseded by the action and fantasy elements, as GOT plays out towards its endgame.

 

The first 3 books were wonderful. AFFC was average and suffered from missing principle characters. ADWD was IMHO total crap.

 

The books definitely go down hill after the first three (still worth reading though). Martin changes his storytelling structure. AFFC and ADWD occur at the same time, but focus on different characters and locations. One of the things I love about the first three books is powering through parts of the story about characters I didn't like to get back to the ones I was interested in. The first three books never seem boring or drawn out, but AFFC and ADWD feel kind of plodding and tedious at times.

 

I think I chose a bad episode to start watching the show...

 

Yeah. There is just a lot to catch up on...