NOT: Theory on the new Schiit

This is a fascinating discussion. I've heard AES offers the best sound quality and I believe its only on the Yggdrasil? What are some devices that offer AES output?

 

Mostly professional/broadcast gear. We have a bunch of RME AES and/or MADI cards and some other heftier stuff kicking about at work for legacy applications/interfacing.

 

High end transports usually include AES outputs. One of the cheapest transports with one is emotiva's ERC3, if you really want to explore that option.

 

If it did SACD as well I'd consider it. But then it would probably have to output those through the analog outs anyway.

 

Singxer SU-1.

 

Good to know thanks. I also notice Yggdrasil has a BNC input. Is that on par with AES or below it?

 

You really, really need to learn how to search for answers yourself. In every thread you post in, you ask questions that have been answered before.

AES vs. BNC

 

I'll be the obnoxious guy and say implementation trumps format. There might be some exceptions or rules of thumb (optical can be a pain in the ass, Usb can have a lot of problems) but it always varies.

These guys might know the specifics on Yggdrasil's inputs though.

 

I may be wrong on some of the details here, so don't take it as gospel...

BNC: 75 ohm characteristic impedance, possible to terminate at 75 ohm, operates at 0.5V, differential signal, can be transformer isolated but usually isn't, two wire no shield (or the "shield" is the negative?? depends on the cable config, but supposed to be coax), sounds like a noodle

AES: 110 ohm characteristic impedance, difficult to terminate at 110 ohm, operates at 5V, differential signal, supposed to be transformer isolated (and "balanced") but sometimes isn't, two wire (twisted pair) plus shield, also sounds like a noodle but with more vowels, so that's a noooodle.

 

I actually tried looking for AES vs BNC and couldn't find anything via SBAF. All I found was that they were both superior to coax, but nothing about what the differences between the two are.

Many thanks to those who answered my question.

 

I seem to recall Mike Moffat posting somewhere that he prefers AES on the Yggdrasil. I do wish Gungnir Multibit offered AES but I think BNC is plenty sufficient.

 

ST Fiber FTW.

 

I also recall @baldr prefers BNC over SPDIF (Coax or Optical). And AES/EBU over all of them. Various other reports seem to point largely in the same direction.

 

Spdif inputs and outputs that use bnc connectors imply use of coax as the transmission medium, same as rca connected although the impedance is different.

As for AES vs BNC or RCA coax superiority, the implementation, as pointed out above by @Azteca, does matter. The AES spec for example does not require ground isolation, yet many devices do implement it. It all comes down to how the connected devices implement these standards.

Some folks here have a preference for bnc over coax and aes over bnc, but it varies. I have some friends who really like AES with their Yggdrasil and usb bridge and one who prefers Toslink. In audio, rarely are there 100% absolutes.

 

BNC is single-ended, not differential. Its advantage is that its connector geometry lets you maintain 75 Ohm characteristic impedance all the way to the jack. The cable shield is also terminated around the entire circumference of the connector, so the shielding is complete.

AES 110 Ohm is a pretty terrible design, initially done to save studios some money so they can use the same connectors, but from a design POV, it sucks because you can easily confuse an analog cable in the studio with a digital cable and use the wrong one, and the geometry of the XLR does not allow you to maintain the 110 Ohm impedance to the jack. The shield termination in an XLR is often a pigtail, so you have an EMI ingress point (along with an antenna formed by the pigtail) at the jack. Neutrik does make an XLR connector with a 360-degree crimped shield connection, but you still have the mismatched connector impedance, and use of that connector is very rare.

How important is the connector impedance? Mismatched impedance can cause reflections and in turn perhaps jitter. Does it matter? Depends on who you ask. From a standard transmission line POV and with signals in digital audio being relatively slow (much less than 100 MHz, including harmonics, meaning signal wavelengths of more than 3 meters) and the connector body being an inch or less, it doesn't matter. But then again, we argue over USB decrapifiers, so who knows?

 

From my research, the bolded is the only real advantage of BNC over a coaxial cable terminated with proper Canare RCA plugs. Blue Jeans states (my emphasis added):

Source: Is there Really a True 75 Ohm RCA Plug?; see also Digital Audio Cables; 75-ohm RCA Crimp Plug.

I've considered getting a Blue Jeans RCA-->BNC coax cable to compare to my RCA-->RCA going into my Yggdrasil currently, but haven't gotten around to it (and probably never will).

 

I've been looking hard at the 2 channel space recently and it seems chaotic. Over complicated entry level components with DSP are everywhere, so ignorant consumers could see their music running through multiple DAC/ADC conversions before they actually hit a transducer. The NAD 3020D is a case in point...analog in gets ADC'ed and DAC'ed and then the class D amp effectively does the same thing again. So much for the original 3020's simple value proposition.

On the other hand 'Simple' separates cost a frigging fortune because they have garnered a 'high-end' reputation and associated price tag.

I'm hoping Friday at RMAF brings us a couple of simple and effective components to clean that up. A simple balanced two channel amp and pre with no frills and modest power output for starters. Even at Emotiva I have to opt for the frigging 7-card chassis to get a simple balanced power amp FFS.

 

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?profile-posts/3414/

From Jason:

 

Do you remember how long after the Yggdrasil and Raggy reveal at RMAF(Schiit Show?) they were available for general public sale?

 

I think it was immediate, limited to stock on hand. They got back ordered pretty fast at the beginning, but also resolved pretty fast.