Trouble caring about the differences between cheap dac-amps

Lately I have been testing differences between various USB dac-amps, or external soundcards as I think of them. I got going a Schiit Fulla at the moment, which arrived today, and also a TEAC HA-P50 and a Beyerdynamic A200p (like AK10), both of which I got second hand for less than their original asking price, and also a $15 one from eBay called "X5" that doesn't even have a case (enclosure), which sports "PCM2706 + CS4344 + Dual TDA1308," as their listings are often titled. I tried an HRT microStreamer earlier this year too.

I have trouble telling the differences between them. If a percentage can be put to it, it's like 2 to 7% difference between each, but just typing that seems like a stretch.

I read from dozens of sites and reviews that various DACs have different sounds. For instance, Wolfson is reported to be "warmer" unless properly implemented, as it was described as being in the A200p by a few reviews.

The A200p MSRPed for $300 and the X5, which doesn't even have a case, sounds kind of the same for only $15.

Who's shitting who here?

Sometimes I think the X5 sounds better. Sometimes not. Hard to say. The X5 seems to have a less clear sound. That's bad. That's very non-audiophile to have a muddy sound. I am sure of that. But it's not by much. It's not a "$275" worth of mud here. Also the X5 doesn't have as many (or any?) hiccups in the audio as so far the Schiit has a few times since I've had it today.

So... hmm... I'm tempted to say:

#1 Schiit Fulla (best buy, only $89)
#2 A200p (good buy if you get it cheaper like I did, plus it has a cool volume control that's different from everything else, and you can precisely set it, unlike a fiddly knob that you're always reaching to pinch at)
#3 X5 (just normal, good basic sound, probably similar to what you get in a PC with Realtec; I don't know. Maybe better amplification than usual though. It does have a number of capacitors on the board).
#4 TEAC HA-P50 (it's a little harsh and abrasive sounding, and bigger than the others. The soundstage, or sound field, seemed oddly organized, too. A little narrow-sounding. But it has a good, precise, very sharp sound, if you like that. Probably an accurate sound that makes no effort to smooth over rough edges).

Can't remember HRT well enough. Also have been comparing an old Sony portable CD player, a Playstation Vita and a few other sources. But ... well, oddly I wanted to go with a cheap USB *portable* dac-amp (sound card) even though I'm using it as a desk, why? Well... I thought it might be the most "minimalistic" option - to get into HiFi a bit, but without like... going all out. I never care about the extra ports on the back for possibly powering speakers or something else, or needing various inputs and all that. So I look at a lot of these, like audio-gd, various larger ones. Of course I looked at Dragonfly too (most obvious choice), I mean online I read about them, or Apogee Groove, DacMagic, and others, trying to determine whether their crosstalk was better, THD was better, and other specs which probably aren't factual, or based on different standards making them useless for comparison purposes.

So what is my point exactly? I forgot.

I was just going to say I do notice subtle differences between these "entry level" dac-amps, but my ears get used to their sound fairly quickly. I've mostly been using Beyerdynamic DT 1350 for my serious tests, and sometimes older ones I got like MDR-V6, SR-60i, and others, but nothing deluxe and expensive; even the 1350 I got rather cheap second hand. Don't know why I feel the need to say the prices so much. I just keep thinking this whole effort has been futile in trying to step into HIfi. Yes, the headphones make the biggest difference (like this article says, http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...dget-among-headphones-amps-and-dac-source.57/) and the DACs and amp combos do have their own precisely different sound... but it's hard to really care! Listening fatigue sets in fast when trying to do these tests. After like 20 minutes even... what sounded beautifully delicate or articulate and on target, well that same song turns to mush after testing these devices over and over again. The earpads on the headphones heat up, making you want to take them off, but if you go too long your memory fades of what you heard! So there's no solution! It's a paradox. Unless the differences are obvious, just choose one that works, isn't too expensive, doesn't have an annoying volume dial (all of these do, except the X5's which is smooth and slow to turn), doesn't have USB problems, etc.

(An example of a USB problem: The $300 beyer A200p will suddenly go FULL BLAST in volume if you turn up the volume in Windows to 100%, which you might think you should do to get "full juice" from your system, or some such, but be careful because there's no volume control in Windows with this device: it is entirely bypassed by the device itself as you turn its wheel... that is, setting Windows to 0 in the system will indeed silence it, but 1 to 99 does nothing, until you go up just one more to 100 and it goes BOOM! full blast! but thankfully only 1.7 Vrms with the volume unlocked, so only somewhat damaging to your ears).

thanks for reading, if anyone did. This was not proofread
Matt

P.S. Maybe I should sell these and just get a Chord Mojo...

 

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...bers-introduce-yourself.17/page-64#post-92396

 

@Merrick's suggestion is a good one. You'll find a few relevant tips in that thread. I suspect this isn't the community for you.

I imagine you won't take the time to introduce yourself properly or look for said advice, and I'm not linking you to it purposefully, so I'll leave you with this: Nobody cares about anything that you think about anything.

 

@zonto, you have a valid point. But I'm tired of the elitist shit on this forum that says it's OK to go straight to full-blown asshole and just crap on Randos. Grow up.

 

Fair enough, though I think that's a mischaracterization of my post in this thread at least.

I'm tired of random strangers coming into an established community of friends and waxing poetic with (expressly admittedly) pointless free writes that drag on and on. Especially when such ramblings are created as a new thread, as someone's first post, that serves no useful purpose except further reducing the forum's S/N ratio.

If someone doesn't (1) have the tact to introduce themselves to people they've never met before and (2) take the time to proofread their posts and create worthwhile content, then I don't think we should tolerate, much less reward them for, it.

In my opinion, it's users like this that need to grow up.

 

Tilting at windmills again, Mr Quixote? I guess treating people like shit is a valid alternative to closing off new member registrations, plus it allows us all to watch you pout and stamp your feet.

 

@Senorx12562 , keep it constructive.

That post is bad, even if he had introduced himself first. The elitist streak is present here, but we are working to change that.

 

Elite vs. Elitist, exclusive vs exclusionary, these are tensions we are trying to navigate.

We have wrongly shitted on some first timers, but have wasted a lot of time with others who show no promise.

EDIT: instead of no promise, I mean no effort.

 

That was an interesting read in terms of understanding your subjective experiences.

But organize your thoughts more, keep your writing concise, and don't discredit yourself by saying things like this:

...and this:

If you don't know what your point is, and don't trust your own writing enough to polish it or expect others to read it, you give others no incentive to take you seriously.

 

@barelyincollege, thanks for taking the time to give constructive criticism.

 

Ok

 

Cheap DAC's are cheap DAC's. It's an endless tango of side-step side-step one step forward and two steps back.

 

@stalepie it's not too late, you can still step out of this hobby, before you start using that ak47 on your wallet. Run, fast, and don't look back.

 

I think you are wasting money. Stick to one or two dacs at most. Second dac can be backup if case one fails or need some back to shop mods/upgrades.

Go listen to R2R/Multi-bit dacs if you can. It would be a mind blowing event for you if your listening/hearing is up to the elitist snuffs(like us? or maybe not?)

 

I've been to headfi a few times the last month or so and it truly is an abomination. The seemingly heavy handed responses to Randos here are probably born out of great concern and a desire for SBAF to remain what it is. I think allowances need to be made for BOTH sides.

Maybe a polite first statement along the lines of... "You've broken some rules (admittedly some are unwritten) with your first few posts here. We are always happy to welcome members who will enhance our community, and we have found that those who take the time to introduce themselves and lurk for a few days before posting end up sticking around. You won't be banned for being honest at SBAF but we don't tolerate a lot of the other stuff you've probably seen at other forums. Put some music on, get comfortable, do some reading and introduce yourself."

Edited to add... that's way better than "welcome to HF, sorry about your wallet"

 

This thread reminded me of my younger self, it was about 14years ago, when I was just a 20year old. My country had mandatory conscription and I had to serve 2years of my young adult life on a measly USD $200 per month as an army recruit.

That was when my younger self stepped inside a very high class audiophile store(They had KEF and Krell amps and etc), and there was this snobbish audiophile store keeper who gave me the look as if I could not afford the gears that were being displayed there. All my questions to store keeper were answered with terse rebuke and as if I had no clue about anything sold there and I just stepped into no-man's land.

Now 14years later, I can afford the stuff there and understood how audiophile equipment work and sound. Will I visit that audio store? Never in my lifetime.

I think we should give people a chance to learn and not be so outward elitist or snobbish. Some Randos might not have good writing or is just starting out on this audiophile hobby. Maybe one day they might just turn out to be the next @Torq ?

But of course shitposters like gutb or motc should be given the shinobi treatment.

 

So @zonto puts together the knowledge base, @GTABeancounter sets the tone for introducing new folks, and @barelyincollege critques first time posters - that's what I am talking about!

 

I think there is a disconnect here.

Nobody in this thread is acting elitist or snobbish. We are not chiding someone because they don't hear the same way we do or poo-pooing them for not having or spending more money. We are discussing common sense and etiquette separate and apart from the gear itself.

If the OP had walked into the same audio shop and said the same thing he posted here in-person, how on earth would a reasonable shop owner respond?

"Uhhh ok, so why did you come in then?"

 

This is something which @Huxleigh has done previously,

It could be done with a simple reply like this:

"Hi, Rando, Welcome to SBAF! I think you have forgotten to introduce yourself in the new member introduction thread below*. Please spend some time to introduce yourself so that we can better understand you and your music preferences and gears. It would greatly aid in our recommendation and reply to your thread.

*http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/new-members-introduce-yourself.17/


It would make a world of difference in perception of how first timers view the SBAF community.

I have step into many other audiophile stores where they serve you like any walk in customers without prejudice of your age, dressing, race or even you asked some really dumbo questions etc.

I forget to mention that day I was visiting the snobbish audiophile store with one of my millionaire friend(his father is a retired millionaire) and he was dressed like a poor man in Bermudas but he could afford to buy the gears there for sure.(and that was the reason why I stepped into that high class store in the first place, as to accompany my friend who was geniunely looking at high end gears, his dad was an audiophile with horn speakers and zanden dac and etc)

 

Draft addendum to the above (on my phone):

We also invite you visit The All Purpose Advice Thread which we have dedicated exclusively for members to ask individualized questions regarding gear purchases. We did this in order to keep the more substantive threads and subfora which contain them uncluttered. If you choose to create individualized advice threads elsewhere, they will be deleted.

To share our community knowledge-base, we have created, and are in the process of creating, compendia threads on popular topics. We invite you to visit these threads, which have been and will be pinned in the relevant subfora.

[potential to link to certain compendia here for easy reference]

Before creating a new thread, please utilize the search function (particularly by checking the "Search titles only" box and unchecking the "Search this forum only" box) to locate existing threads relevant to your topics of interest.

Once you have located such thread(s), before asking individualized questions therein, please search within the thread(s) for specific keywords relevant to your question by checking the "Search this thread only" box and unchecking the "Search titles only" box. Chances are someone has asked the same question before.

Please understand we are not trying to limit member expression. These requests are motivated by our intent to keep the signal-to-noise ratio of SBAF high so it remains a useful resource going forward.