Turntable advice

http://vpiindustries.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2289

Look at post 959. Quite a bit later he says it doesn't happen when he filters the fluid. Its a long thread, and don't have time to find it, but its there.

Since this is Harry Wesfield, who has a truly great collection (I''ve seen it, its ginormous) I do understand his concerns. If its true or not, time will tell, but I'm content with hand scrubbing records for now.

 

I notice I didn't see much commentary about "vintage" turntables. Is there a downfall to going down that path? I see some nice Thorens refurbs, Linn, and the sort. Is going down that path a bad ides?

 

The refurbs tend to get marked up quite a bit, I avoid them because I like to get my hands dirty.

The inner workings of the older tables like the Thorens are actually pretty simple to service and maintain. Linn as well but they can go down these insanely expensive upgrade paths (it's relativev to other audiophile tables though).

The td-160 you post typically will need new springs, new belt, platter bearing and motor lubed/checked for true-ness. The tp-16mk1 is a mid-heavy effective mass arm and is not bad but the bearings are hard to adjust and tend to get sloppy with age. The tp-60 headshell mechanics sucks but it is what it is.

You can throw aftermarket arms on there too with some planning and money. I guess it boils down to what you can get and how great of condition it is in.

I can't hang as hard as many of the other sbaf-er's and only roll with old ass tables to be honest with you, if I could get a nice vintage table like that for reasonable sums I'd be all over it. I also do not believe many of the modern produced tables around or under the $1500-2k mark are all that great of a value proposition against a properly functional vintage table with the right pedigree.

 

This is my first winter with a real turntable setup. I have my setup in an addition to our house that doesn't get direct furnace heat and has a lot of windows. It's probably 55-60F in the day and a little colder than that at night.

Anything I should be concerned about? Should I at least store my records elsewhere?

 

I feel confident that low temperatures that a person can tolerate would be safe for records. I have been collecting and caring for records for 45 years. I made sure that they were stored in a dry, not too hot and out of sunlight location. Throughout the 80s, I had them in a large unheated walk-in closet that adjoined a garage separated by a very thin wall. It would get pretty cold in the winter. I never worried about that and had no problems.

The Library of Congress guidelines seem kind of weird/vague* as far as temperature. Maybe focus in on "cool (room temperature or below), relatively dry". (The LoC lumps magnetic tape with records in this info, btw. Bullet point three, for example, is for magnetic tape only.)

* The last two bullet points seem to leave a big unexplained gap between 50° F and 65° F. Probably an oversight. The upper limit of 70° F seems conservative. When I started collecting records, a lot of record stores did not have air conditioning and 90 - 100° F temperatures are not uncommon in the summer. (Not that I am suggesting that high of temperature for storage.)
Also, I don't know what vibration has to do with anything.

http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html#Storage

Environment

• For home collections, a cool (room temperature or below), relatively dry (about 35-40% relative humidity or RH), clean, and stable environment (avoid attics, basements, and other locations with high risk of leaks and environmental extremes)
• Minimal exposure to all kinds of light; no exposure to direct or intense light
• Minimal exposure to strong magnetic fields*
• Distance from radiators and vents
• Distance from sources of vibration
• For institutional collections with materials to be preserved for a minimum of 10 years (ANSI IT9.13, 1996): 65-70° F and 45-50% RH
• For institutional collections with materials having permanent value: 46-50° F and 30-40% RH; do not store magnetic tape below 46° F

Edit: Some good advice from the LOC page:

General

• Store all formats upright: discs and reels on edge; cassettes on long edge; cylinders standing on end
• Ensure shelving is sturdy enough to support the heft and weight concentration of these materials (e.g., grooved discs average 35+ pounds per shelf-foot; all formats concentrate weight on the centerline of a shelf, which can cause some shelving to collapse)
• Store grooved discs on shelves with sturdy, immovable dividers every 4-6 inches* that support the entire face of the disc in its sleeve
• Do not store grooved discs of different diameters together

* That "dividers every 4-6 inches" seems closer than necessary to me.

 

This finally was available this morning, and I put in for one. I was getting tired of scrubbing records manually, so hopefully this speeds up the process. Now to get a motor spindle that works with this size. I already have formulations, and the dishwasher rack, lol.

 

Since the VPI Classic series is so popular, I wonder if anyone has feedback on aftermarket footer products? In particular, the BearPaw solid brass footers which are threaded spikes that set in to brass point receivers and entirely replace the stock VPI feet. And also the Symposium damping inserts which directly replace the stock VPI damping inserts. So, in one case, it seems like we're removing damping altogether while on the other it seems like we're upgrading the existing damping. WTF? ;-)

I saw a thread on the VPI forum where HW was interested in feedback on the BearPaws, but that thread never really concluded satisfactorily....

 

I read the Bearpaws used on Superscouts that are paired with rim drives, where the Bearpaws add stability (the hrx mini feet dissipate energy but slide, i guess), and the rim drives are set on elastomer footers. This provides grip and reduces the noise transferred. I'll know the opposite in a few days, lol.

 

I have basically zero knowledge of turntables, components, and setup involved, so please bear with me here:
Is a decent setup for A/D'ing records possible for under $1k or even $2k?


I wasn't sure if I should post this here or the budget rig. thread. I apologize if it should be somewhere else.

 

I'm not sure what "A/D'ing" is, but if it's short for 'an enjoyable and satisfying musical experience', the answer is 'yes', at either price point. If you buy a used deck, arm, and phono stage (and new cart), particularly at 2k, you'll be in very nice shape for a long time.

 

A/D means analog to digital. So creating digital rips of your vinyl records.

 

Got it, thanks. Used to 'needle drops'.

 

What Azteca said is what I meant, sorry about the confusion on my choice of terminology. I'm sure I'll end up playing records occasionally but, my main use would be getting and ripping metal records for any album where the CD release has poor dynamic range.

Any advice on brands or general information on turntables and the like would be much appreciated.

 

Nope, my fault, 'derp' moment.

For a 2k budget, I'd look to spend half on a turntable/arm. Start doing research at places like 'right here', and Vinyl Asylum. Check all the used equipment outlets (Audiogon, VA, HI Fi Shark, etc.) for decks in your price range, and then google up reviews. I think the VPI Scout 1.0 w/JMW 9 arm is good used value at about 1k but of course there are many others to choose from. Using the same strategy, look for a used phono stage for +/- 500.00. I think used is a particularly good idea for phono preamps, since they are so personal in nature. If you have the capital, buy one, listen, buy another, compare, sell the one you like least, continue ad infinitum until you are 97 years old. You should be able to resell at or close to what you paid. At least, that's the idea.Try to find a phono pre with mm/mc capabilities so you can buy a Denon DL-103r cartridge for 250.00. That will leave you with 250.00 for a tracking force scale, stylus cleaning brush, record cleaning brush, interconnects-and even an actual record or two.

The best thing you can do for yourself is read, research, and listen before buying. That will cut down on the potential for expensive mistakes. With used gear, you have a chance at making those 'mistakes' even less expensive. Have fun!

Edit: I wrote all this with the possibly misplaced assumption that you already own the requisite sound-making gear, i.e. preamp/amp/receiver, speakers, etc. If you don't have that stuff, you'll be very disappointed at the lack of musical 'cohesion' from your new vinyl rig.

 

I don't intend to listen to the sound of a table spinning and stare at some waveforms . I'm in the process of setting aside money for and determining which amp I want for my HD800 S and thus getting off my soundcard. I also have a speaker setup but it's nothing to write home about. This will come after but it'll be a while yet.

I presume VA = Vinyl Asylum?

Thanks for the info.

 

Yeah I think I believe more in direct coupling to the substrate than in shock mount upgrades. The substrate itself of course has to be well isolated. You got a great deal on that Symposium Ultra base.

 

I do appreciate @Tari's kindness. I had them come in yesterday, and put my tubed preamp on it. I was surprised by the effect on the sound, having worked with stuff like this for a long time. There was a bit more detail and blackness, as expected, but so much less work than cones, etc. Will try it on the Yggdrasil the next few days, and probably get one for the table. I was going to make or get a sandbox and bladder platform, having used those before, but this is just as good, for less work.

SBAF is all about paying it forward!

 

Yes. 'Vinyl Engine' also has a good tt forum.

 

For those with the VPI Classic platter who have used a tonearm lifter, such as this one, how much of a spacer is needed underneath? I think 1/2" under the lifter? Anyone know for sure? TIA.

 

That looks way nicer than the Q-Up sitting on my table.