USB Nervosa Thread Decrapifiers, pro interfaces, and bears oh my

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by zerodeefex, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. music4mhell

    music4mhell New

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Bangalore (India)
  2. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,446
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  3. winders

    winders boomer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    This my first post. Hello all! This is what I've decided to do:

    MacBook Pro -> iFi iDefender3.0 (with iFi iPower 5v DC ) -> iFi iPurifier2 -> Singxer F-1 (SPDIF Coax out) -> Modi Multibit (SPDIF Coax in)

    This should really clean things up! It's funny that the setup costs more than the DAC....
     
  4. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Netherlands
  5. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    8,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Only in a world where "funny" is a closet-uphemsism for "utterly stupid".
     
  6. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,051
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is the biggest waste of money I've seen on here in a while. WTF. Save up for a Gungnir Multibit and forego the bullshit products.
     
  7. winders

    winders boomer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    Such a friendly place......
     
  8. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Irvine CA
    It seems to me that you have gone a bit wild with cable/power purification. It may sound rough and you may disagree, but @zerodeefex is kind of saying you probably will get much more for your money if you go for a Gungnir, and think about cable/power purification maybe later, and if you need it.

    To many it is not funny that your setup may cost more than a DAC. They would rather see folks spend more of their hard earned cash on a better DAC, or amp, or set of headphones. It's your $ though.
     
  9. winders

    winders boomer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    Thank you for the friendlier response!

    I could argue that there is more to be gained cleaning up the USB crap and feeding a quality SPDIF coax signal to the Modi Multibit than there is keeping the USB setup I have and buying a Gungnir or even a Gungnir Multibit.

    Down the road, the plan is to get a Yggdrasil and a Mjolnir 2. The USB to SPDIF chain I am building will work well there or with any other config I come up with.

    As far as the DAC cost is concerned, it's not my fault that Schiit built such a fantastic DAC in the Modi Multibit for so little money. I like it better than the Bifrost Multibit and it stands up okay to the Gungnir Multibit. Yggdrasil kicks its butt though.
     
  10. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    358
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yeah, they can be a bit mean sometimes! But they are a good bunch really, actually they are quite cuddly, honest! :)

    The general consensus on this forum, is that it is better to invest in a higher-end DAC which comes with improved clock handling (eg Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil) before spending money on magic widgets. Having said that, the USB input on Gungnir Multibit is notably inferior to its other inputs.

    I'm not familiar with the iFi iDefender, what is it? Does it clean-up the Mac's optical output?
     
  11. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,521
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    London, UK
    ...except that it's better to feed the Yggdrasil via AES. Might I suggest that you stop spending significant money until you have a better grasp of the situation? It could avoid costly mistakes.
     
  12. WNovizar

    WNovizar Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Being friendly doesn't mean being kind. A best friend (pardon the pun!) will scold you for wasting money buying devices for purification of USB line instead of spending more on DACs
     
  13. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    8,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    You could argue it, but you'd be wrong.

    The two iFi devices you have ahead of your Singxer F-1 are doing nothing useful in that setup.

    If they were directly feeding the USB input of a device that had sensitive analog components in it, like the Modi MB itself, then you'd get some value out of them. But the USB input on the F-1 is, like all Async USB 2.0 interfaces, essentially immune to clocking issues (USB "re-clocking" is nonsense unless your connection is so screwed up that you're getting drop-outs). as there is no audio-relevant clock in USB Async Audio. And ALL USB 2.0 Async DACs/DDCs must handle the sample-rate clock themselves. And then all that USB power purification is a bit pointless on the F-1 as it already provides electrical isolation on it's COAX output. There's no way there's enough power-line noise on USB to flip-bits, so it's doing nothing for you as configured.

    Either ditch the F-1 and just use the iFi devices into Modi MB's USB input or, better, ditch to the two iFi devices and just use the F-1. You don't need both. Arguably, at the level you're at, you don't need either.
     
  14. winders

    winders boomer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    Generally, the USB inputs are compromised compared to the SPDIF coax inputs on the Schiit DACs. There is no way I would feed USB to Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil. I hear Yggdrasil does best with AES. I have not researched USB --> AES conversion as of yet. When I get closer to buying an Yggdrasil I'll figure that part out. But, in the mean time, and for the next few years, I will probably have SPDIF coax as my best option.

    My MacBook Pro has no optical outputs. The iDefender3.0 (with iFi iPower 5v DC) function is to break ground loops and, in conjunction with the iPower, supply very low noise power on the rest of the devices on the USB chain.
     
  15. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,521
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    London, UK
    [​IMG]
     
  16. winders

    winders boomer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    You don't need to be such a jerk in your presentation.

    If the iFi devices would benefit the Modi Multibit, they would benefit the Singxer F-1 too.

    I am sorry that my lowly equipment is not worth anything in your mind. Jeez, do you listen to yourself? I suppose I am supposed to bow down to you as I read your posts.
     
  17. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    8,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    No, they wouldn't.

    They are completely different devices with different sensitives and concerns. One is a DDC that operates purely in the digital domain, the other operates in both digital and analog domains and the analog side of that is very sensitive to electrical noise. You simply do not need to try and address both issues in the chain you describe.

    That you fail to understand what these devices do, how they do it, where they are valuable, or to comprehend how USB Audio works and where it's issues are does not change the realities of their behavior.

    I have a Modi MB, Lyr 2 and HD-650 myself, among other things. I regard them very highly. I do not, however, find any reasonable return on investment in spending $340 or so on "gadgets", one half of which completely invalidates the need for the other, when the total improvement you might gain, in the best case, is a small fraction of the initial cost of the DAC alone, never mind more than 100% of that cost.

    I try not to listen to myself too often - it's the voices ... they tell me to do bad things* ...

    I don't care what you do. You're free to ignore me (I believe the site has an ignore function), or anything I say, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to call out obvious bullshit when it potentially effects people here that I do care about.

    --

    *Like buying multiple iFi iDefenders and putting them in series; if one is good - more must be better!
     
  18. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Irvine CA
    Maybe folks are coming a bit strong at you. But you are not holding back either.

    Listen to folks and if you give them credit, make them know that you understand that they might be right. I'm not saying you should just drop everything and give more credit to other folks than yourself, but give their recommendations a shot.
     
  19. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    The Singxer MoMB combination are not "lowly". I listen to an Singxer SU-1 -> MoMB -> Jotunheim -> HD650 on a regular basis. It is a great combination. The other stuff isn't helping. @Torq knows of what he speaks from experience. I measure this stuff as part of my research. The iFi devices really are superfluous in this situation.
     
  20. winders

    winders boomer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    I got assaulted by a few members...is anyone surprised that I might get a little defensive? There is no reason for them to be mean spirited about it, either.

    They may be right and it will be something that I will test for my self. If the iFi units do nothing they will go back. The Singxer F-1 is staying no matter what.

    A certain member saying that "at the level I am at" I won't benefit from some or all of this is insulting.
     

Share This Page