USB Nervosa Thread Decrapifiers, pro interfaces, and bears oh my

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by zerodeefex, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    Please stop with this condescending bullshit towards new members. If you aren't genuinely trying to help people out why even post? Go read another thread.
     
  2. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    @Trinity I never used a PC or Mac as a USB source for my several DACs, that whole mess felt like an exercise in futility. I've used low-power, dedicated ARM Linux devices for several years. Those start out pretty decent, get a bit better with a well-built converter to S/PDIF or AES, but it's even better to bypass USB altogether with something like an Auralic Aries. I asked my original question because it wasn't clear what your USB source was. It's sad to see so many waste untold hours and money trying to get a noisy USB source to work well with a necessarily suboptimal USB receiver in a DAC. That's why it's worth reading these threads carefully, to find gems like @Torq 's ranked order of DAC sources that was quoted above.
     
  3. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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  4. Trinity

    Trinity New

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    @earnmyturns

    The Aries is something I am looking at, but they are hard to come by and the new one at what 4k price is it? As Torq or Marvey said, won't do us used market guys any favors on price drops. I have learned more here in the last few weeks that I learned at HEAD-Fi in the last 6 months. It's not that there is not good info there, there is just a sycophantic pattern with what the Schiit is this week or right now. Yes the Schiit reference is a bit of a poke cause this forum is very high on it, hey, I understand the more I read, not just here, but other places, there really isn't much that gives it a go for less than twice it's price. That maybe a bit of a stretch for some DACs, but for others it's not enough. It really is a great DAC and any person should be happy to call that the end.

    I have heard the Yggdrasil, but not enough to give it a real audition... I might change my mind if I listened to more, but I fell in love with NOS. It might be cause dad, "accidentally" dropped me on my head when I was a baby, but there it is...

    I've always been a KISS type person. The more shit ya got going the more shit there is to f**k-up. Or at least for simple folk like me, the less you have the easier it,"should" be to troubleshoot.

    What makes more sense, starting with a turd and adding spices and incense so it no longer smells like a turd, or started with a rose and putting it in a nice vase and enjoying it? Where I, and I'm sure others, have fallen into trouble is being married to the PC and thinking that everything, should be able to happen with that device without adding to it, or perhaps taking way from it. Yes, it can, do it, but it's a bit of Swiss army knife thing. You can cut down a tree with that bitch, but you are going to be there a while spend lots of effort, most likely, get bloody (spend lots of money) and in the end the chainsaw or ax did a much cleaner job and it was a lot easier to achieve better results.

    I dunno if any of this is making any sense, nor whether, I fully addressed your response, I do love a good Irish. :)

    I do agree that an Aries is a great option, probably the best for my price, but I still like the convenience and comfort of my PC. I do not have the same affinity for USB anymore, unless we are talking about mice keyboards and the like. SO I will be looking toward a PCI or PCIe solution, yes, I have read you guys, they are the same other than PCIe cost way more, so that is my first choice, but I'm going to enjoy what I have for a bit before I make a move. After all, good things are'acomin. :p



    Trin
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  5. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    The new Aries is not on sale yet, and seems way overkill. You can get a used Aries (the femto/LPS version, not the LE) for less than $1000 if you are patient and use all the many used audio gear sites, I did just a few weeks ago. But that's a whole different path, with setting up a network, a server, etc. Works for me as I've been managing a home network for a long time and I have two systems networked to the same music server. But to keep it simple, it looks like those PCI or PCIe gadgets are promising. Not that I know anything about PCs, though, I've been a Mac and *nix guy since the 80s.

    As for what's fashionable here or elsewhere, fashion is human, it's up to each of us to pick and choose what works for us, fashionable or not.
     
  6. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    My 2¢
    In our local AOIP group, gefski took the plunge and ordered the Atterotech Ud0 for ≈$700 including a wall wart PSU.
    It does have a limitation in that it only handles sample rates up to 96KHz, but when used with the multibit Schiit Dacs this isn't much of a limitation.

    That may still be more $$$ than you want to spend right now but it does completely bypass USB completely, and there have been hints from here and there that a similar (non-USB) setup is looming for a few hundred less.

    If there is a wait involved anyway, then it might just be best to keep looking and see what else pops up in the near future.

    Just a thought or 2.

    JJ
     
  7. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    I managed to pick up an M-Audio Audiophile PCI card for not much money. It has S/PDIF with transformer (similar to other pro sound cards) for electrically isolated output. It does the job well, can't hear any hash. Cheaper than the Lynx and RME cards and doesn't require a breakout cable for S/PDIF. Could be worth keeping your eyes peeled on a certain auction site :)
     
  8. Trinity

    Trinity New

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    I do have an available PCI slot in the PC. :) So if I went this route, would you run the AES input to feed the Holo at that point? Is this the best option with that config? RIght now the chain is I2S from the SU-1

    For this price, I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the card, as you said, I can always try it and send it along to the next person if I don't hear what I'm looking for.
     
  9. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I wouldn't do this with the Holo Audio Spring DAC. The audible improvement it exhibits via it's I2S input vs it's AES input is bigger, and more beneficial, than you'll get by removing USB from your existing chain (absent an I2S source that doesn't need a USB input).

    If you weren't using I2S it would be another matter (e.g. if you were running USB straight into the Spring DAC), but in this case I'd just leave things as they are unless you want your computer out of the chain for some other reason.

    If you want to minimize the impact that having USB anywhere in the chain has, you could feed the SU-1 via a SonicOrbiterSE (the microRendu is overkill with an SU-1) or look at one of the USB "isolators" (JCat/Intona). Though personally I didn't find a benefit to the JCat isolator into the SU-1 with the Spring DAC KTE (something I tested in my original review of the thing).
     
  10. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    With my PCs setup I basically have two choices: USB->Gustard U12 coax SPIDIF, or Xonar Essence PCIe coax. Which one should be better at least in theory? I understand form this forum is that even transformer isolated SPDIF is still inferior to AES but my DACs do not support AES.
     
  11. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    If you can't HEAR a difference, then it doesn't matter.
     
  12. Northwest

    Northwest Almost "Made"

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    I've been taking a good look at the Attero Tech unDAES-0. I asked a few questions regarding AOIP in the advice thread and received some good knowledge on what AOIP can actually do. I've been trying to plan my trasnsport-DAC purchases out. The Attero Tech only has AES out, and If I were to get a Yggdrasil there wouldn't be any problem pairing it. However, if I were to get a Gungnir or any other DAC without an AES input things would be more complicated.

    Some websites state that AES, and SPDIF are basically the same thing. Only the subcode (I don't know what this is) is different, and most DACs don't pay attention to it, Other website state that no, AES and SPDIF are not the same thing. AES is a much stronger signal, and you run the risk of damaging or destroying equipment by putting it into a SPDIF input.

    If I were to get an Atterotech, and a DAC that does not have AES, is there an inexpensive, effective way of bridging AES to SPDIF that wouldn't affect the signal?
     
  13. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Yep, fundamentally it's done using a transformer (and are sometimes referred to as a "Balun"). In the standard case, you're just adapting the connection and the impedance, and not changing the pulse-train.

    They start around $30 and go up from there.

    Typically they can be used in either direction as well.
     
  14. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    I use a Neutrik NADITBNC-F to go from AES to BNC. Neutrik is pretty standard and of high quality which is why I went with them but I suspect there are cheaper alternatives if you know what you're looking for specifically. Here I was going off brand and quite happy with the purchase - used off of eBay actually.
     
  15. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there some small protocol differences between S/PDIF and AES- so while it usually works due to liberal implementations, there are cases where it won't? I think AES to S/PDIF is the one most likely to fail too- though I'd be seriously busking if I said I could remember why.

    Essentially, I think what I am saying is "measure twice, cut once", and make sure you have a plan "B" if it doesn't work (though it probably will).
     
  16. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    From memory, the biggest divergence, at a protocol level, is down to the Channel Status data. The first part of which is a bit-flag that indicates if the block is an S/PDIF structure (0) or an AES3 structure (1). For most practical, Hi-Fi (as opposed to professional/studio) purposes, AES3 and S/PDIF differ principally in the electrical interface (transmission line characteristics/impedance and connector) ... and what you get is essentially S/PDIF over an AES/EBU electrical interface.
     
  17. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I have yet to experience a DAC that wouldn't accept the SPDIF signal from a Neutrik NADITBNC-FX interface to the Atterotech unDaes-o.
     
  18. Thenewerguy009

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    Thanks for the quick link to Torq's list.

    Has Torq since tried the Singxer SU-1 since then?
    Seems it's easy to use a linear power supply with it & people who tried it said they heard drastic improvements. I wonder if that with a beefy power supply would be able overtake the Aries -> DAC combo or the RedNet -> Mutec MC-3+ combo.

    Still debating on getting a used Aries or a $500-$800 LPS to pair with the SU-1.
     
  19. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    IMHO, save your dollars and wait for a used Aries for $900-1000USD which already comes with a linear power supply, gets away from USB, has airplay, library indexing or acts as a renderer, Tidal integration, app remote and so on. The full Aries is a fantastic device and I still think there will be more to come in the used market as the ballers are unloading their's for the latest and greatest.

    The whole point of this thread is to get away from USB, not add more crap to try and make it sound better :) Trinity's dac (and maybe yours as well, I can't recall what you have) is the exception as according to @Torq the I2S is the best input to use, and therefore a LPS may be worthwhile to add. To get ethernet ->I2S is, from my preliminary research, a very expensive endeavour and I'm still not sure what the best solution there is yet.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  20. neogeosnk

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    Is there a consensus of which is best method for playing directly from a PC? Meaning between Singxer SU-1 & the Lynx AES16. I see that Marvey really liked the Lynx and Torq end it up with the SU-1.
     

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