Where's NwAvGuy?

nwavguy is also a fanboy of the hd650 it seems!

 

He had so little experience with headphones that his first posts on the HD650 reeked of new-toy-syndrome. Good for him but combined with his messiah-complex f**k no.

At least he showed that DIY was a way out of the marketing hype in the audio hobby.

 

I think it's fair to say that NwAvGuy had two big contributions to the field:

1. The popularization of the idea that measurements are the only source of truth. This is a flawed epistemology, I strongly believe, but at the same time it's not obviously worse than "rando 'journalist' who gushes over things and is believed as long as they speak confidently" as a source of knowledge.

2. More importantly: The idea that good quality headphone audio could be very inexpensive. A lot of the pre-O2 inexpensive amps were kinda junky, and a lot of the stuff that was good quality was not inexpensive at all. For instance, HeadRoom was for a time the company that played the role Schiit plays today -- big establishment DAC/amp maker. Their Micro line was little portable opamp-based devices, and I think it's fair to say that they're playing in the same basic league as the O2/ODAC. And yet, the combination of the Micro DAC + Amp was $600 (and probably more if you do the inflation math). And I say this not to crap on the HeadRoom equipment, which was not a ripoff in any way (and which gave me great service for a decade before getting handed off to a friend), but to point out how remarkable the idea of a high-quality, well-supported DAC/AMP at half the price was in the context of a market where that price level was mostly shoddy junk.

I've noted this before, but the real irony of NwAvGuy's distaste for Schiit (which was always personal and never based on their products) is that in many ways, Schiit has been the company that's carried the torch for the "this doesn't have to cost that much, guys" idea to a truly remarkable degree (discrete amplifier for $99?!?), and even if you were someone who held with the idea that "measurably perfect" is all you want, Modi/Magni deliver that less expensively than O2/ODAC, and the only reason to choose NwAvGuy's products in 2015 is your emotional attachment to a dude who said that the only thing that matters is measurable objectivity.

 

It's probably the underdog appeal that leads people to champion O2/ODAC combi over the MM stack.

 

Not sure what's your point here.

Where do people learn to post like this?

 

Sigh...

And you jumped to conclusions even before you started considering what I was trying to ask.

"Common" is not "ground", dear good sir:
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/108776/common-vs-ground
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/123906/ground-vs-earth-vs-common-vs-negative-terminal

I try to make this distinction myself whenever I work with electrical circuits, and I tend to only call "earth ground" the "true ground", as it should be. "Common" as a design can still create other undesirable issues that have to be overcome and cannot be taken for granted in reality.

But I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye with this since you tend to just stick to your theoretical idealistic electrical models without considering that real life isn't as perfect.

So how about I stop here and let you enjoy your O2?

Edit: just more good read if you have the time:
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/papers/The G Word.pdf

 

I respect nwavguy for doing what he did for the community but I think he went about it the wrong way and I don't believe he was correct in objectivity being the end-all.

Before the O2 I don't recall any good budget amps and now you can find a few. That's pretty cool.

 

earth ground, true ground, as it should be ?
Perhaps you should call it what I suppose you are referencing to namely 'safety ground'.

Common ... as a design ?
What undesirable issues do you have to overcome ?
Do you not take reality for granted ?

Yes, you can connect a reference/common/ground plane to safety ground and it is often done as well or at least meant to be connected.

Hard to do with portable equipment like the O2 and your phone is it ?
Perhaps you wear heel grounders and connect your amplifier to those ?
What do you do when you are not walking on an ESD floor ?

Don't own one, never did, don't need one either .
I have no affinity with NwAvGuy but at least HE knew what he was talking about (for the biggest part).

Talking 'bout roping....

 

I'm not trying to be nasty about what you said, as Thujone said earlier, there's far better things to point out if I wanted to be critical. I am genuinely curious about where this pattern is picked up.

 

some buddies mention GainClones, but i sort of don't trust these kind of ic-based amps though never heard one....

 

I think we can all maintain some civility about ground/common, no need to get bent out of shape about electrical principles.

Often used interchangeably but any electrical engineer worth his salt understands the difference (though I admit there are many not). It seems both Bill and Rainman understand that there is a distinction, personal sniping aside.

When current leaves my power supply, where does it return to? This is "common". It may or may not be at the same electrical potential as "earth ground". It may or may not have a connecton to "earth ground". Usually, if it does, it is for safety reasons. You're both right, now stop fighting and hug.

 

^ and I nominate this person for "Friend of the week" position!

(And where is the "thumb up" emoticon when I need one?)

Oh, there's one:

 

And now... Do it again as if you mean it



.

 

Well said, but someone alerted the Pun Police: There is a missed, and painfully obvious, opportunity to direct them to "find a common/ground and stop bickering."

 

It is pretty clear to me that NwAvGuy was really Jason of Schiit.

Consider the chain of events:

1) Schiit was just starting out. They were getting a decent amount of good publicity and people were starting to buy their products, but as with all hifi products that gain momentum, the pendulum swings the other way and people start tearing you down.
2) Schiit is also interested in having an interesting company narrative. If it went from "we made money, then we made more" it would get boring quick. Good narrative needs crises, it needs a period where things looked bleak, it needs a faceless powerful person/group of people determined to up-end everything you worked for.
3) Its also hard to battle the traditional "more expensive = better" hifi mantra. Easier to do it with a grassroots anti-hifi establishment that slowly filters upwards and makes it "OK" to go for quality at a lower price.
4) To preempt this, Jason (marketing whiz that he is) decided to create his foil. Have the person do a bit of damage among the head-fi/reddit/gawker high school/undergrad crowd, people who were already unlikely to have the cash for your (current) products. Have the foil build up a fanbase and preach a message that only diverges slightly from your own view, but makes you out to be the "bad guy."
5) Release a product that seems to be the culmination of this philosophy. Have it be decent and affordable so the minions can afford one and don't lose their faith/passion for audio products.
6) Turn around at Schiit and release a finished product just as affordable and at least as decent. Now all who were already in the Schiit camp (the choir) have ammunition for their defense of your brand, while you have quietly convinced the vocal counterculture to sell off their guitars and buy turntables.
7) Now even those without money are buying their products, they have the goodwill of both the mainstream and the tributaries, they went through the "adversity" necessary for the college entrance exams/rags-to-riches narrative, and Jason can have a good laugh knowing he can be both a relatable public face and an aloof shadowy mastermind.
8) Jason is also a novelist. Leaving conspiracy theorists with an abrupt cliffhanger must have been truly cathartic.

 

I'm sure whatever Jason @schiit was drinking when he read that just shot out of his nose.

 

I think you'll be able to find patterns anywhere you want them to be.

If you prefer simpler words, my points were:

1- Real people willing to be wrong from time to time are more valuable than people with (NwAvGuy) God-like attitude.

2- There's no reason to hide (health issues aside), especially when you have a mission (pretty much what Marv posted)

3- There's plenty of room for objectivism these days, more than ever before, SBAF is proof.

 

I disagree with purrin. Nwav was far from perfect, but at least (?) he aspired to be. His chief faults, as I see them, were being too doctrinaire and lacking social intelligence. I'm willing to overlook those annoying qualities because he explained some things well. I don't blame him for Sound Sighentists: they've always been around.

Incidentally, I really enjoyed his HD650 review at the time. I haven't read it since, don't know what I'd think of it today, and can't be bothered to find out.