ZMF EIKON & ZMF ATTICUS

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by gbeast, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    That didn't read right I had to edit this post. The dip is not like the Elear at all its different. Its not a hollow cavity in that spot. Especially not on the Eikon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  2. seamon

    seamon Acquaintance

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    Hey guys. I am looking for an endgame closed back headphones to go with my 64 Audio U12 ADEL and I am seriously considering either the Atticus or Eikon

    1) Are there any frequency measurements of these headphones? I couldn't find any.
    2) The U12 sound has been said to be similar to Hifiman Edition X. Which between Eikon and Atticus is closer to HEX?
    3) Which between the 2 has better female vocals?
    4) Long shot but do you think iBasso DX200 will be good with one of these?
    -Thanks
     
  3. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Some Final Thoughts on the ZMF Eikon after 3 weeks...
    Chain is exclusively Gungnir Multibit > Zana Deux (12ohm OI) > Cherry Eikon

    Bass
    • Good extension deep, with nice subbass rumble. I could be temporarily fooled Eikon was another planar based on these characteristics
    • Slight midbass hump, with great impact
    • Overall bass is a tasteful bit "north of neutral" . However, for a high end closed back it is NOT "north of average". Most higher end closed backs like t50p mods, Fostex TH whatevers, Atticus, K872, Sony Z1R are certainly bassier, with Ether-C and maybe Oppo PM3 being the only leaner ones I've heard.
    • Very cohesive with the rest of the spectrum, no "bass AND midrange" that I often hear (Elear was particularly guilty of this).
    Midrange
    • Lower midrange starts off a tad thick, but then stays fairly even throughout. Mids are smooth, well detailed, with a nice euphonic decay
    • Mids have a great presence, up front a bit, but not to the extent of something like Andro, or the "cute" mids presentation of many AudioTechnica headphones (like AD2000).
    • There's a seemingly large emphasis around 2.5-3khz, which can sound overly shrill if a female singer hits that note, or there's a particularly up front guitar passage...etc This may be my only significant complaint of the Eikon
    Treble
    • Other than the upper mid/lower treble shrillness above, treble is fantastic. Great extension and air for a closed back
    • Not laid back, but also not peaky or fatiguing, my holy-grail especially as an HD800 mainliner.
    General Observations
    • Overall a sortof neutral presentation, with some fullness and warmth, with a bit unwelcome emphasis in upper mid/lower treble region. Great extension at both extremes, and a slower decay which especially gives great body and tonality to many acoustic instruments.
    • Does really well at loud volumes (can be dangerous), doesn't fall apart or distrort, gets really slamming and involving.
    • Resolution is decent. It's much better at picking out detail than many of the aforemention closed planars, however it's still a step behind many resolving open backs.
    • Soundstage is very wide for a closed back, with great layering. I have forgotten sometimes I'm wearing an isolating headphone when someone needs to talk to me. However this is where I would like to emphasize the ZanaDeux excels here and may be exaggerated.
    • Isolation is really good both in and out, despite the visible vents I would consider this a straight up closed headphone. Certainly better than TH-whatevers and in the same ballpark with many closed t50 mods, Oppo PM3...etc.
    • Weight is weight, but otherwise it's very comfortable. The pads are roomy, yet hug the head well. The dual headband distributes the weight well across the skull, and teh cups have full swivel and a large range of adjustment.

    TLDR
    I stand by my assertion that this is the best closed back (for me) by a decent margin. I became more cynical/critical in the last year+ as I grew more into this hobby, and it feels good to be so smitten and excited by a transducer again. It doesn't have the treble problems of the many t50 mods or EtherC, a much more refined presentation than the bassy fostex or sony dynamics, or even Eikon's sibling Atticus. It's biggest flaw, the uppermid/lower treble emphasis leads to some shrillness, but it is nowehre close to a dealbreaker, and I only notice it at louder volumes.

    $1300+ is a big ask, but considering the market, I think it's fair. Preorder price of $1k was a relative steal, and I'm glad I took the chance on ZMF with dynamics after liking aspects of the Blackwood. It's a really good all-arounder that has few compromises and does not beckon a second complimentary closed set for me. Eikon sounds like how I wish/thought the K10 would sound.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  4. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Great job bro. I envy your ZDS+Eikon combination a lot!
    My gut is telling me that Eikon should be driven by well-designed/implemented tubes to make closer to its optimal performance.

    By the way, don't you think eikon's midrange (to lower treble) is tad recessed in the presence region? Particularly compared with hd650. To my ear, vocals sound somewhat distant (just slightly). But that's not bad for me. It helped eikon to reproduce/mimic relatively deep staging, just like we sit in the back.. HD650 was so honest in this area, so joten's thin staging was very apparent and annoying when such virtue needed. But eikon was far less so even with most demanding musics.

    I am pretty sure about what I heard, but what I am not sure is whether this came from FR or time-domain characteristics.
     
  5. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    follow your gut
     
  6. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Depends on what you mean by presence region I guess. I always assumed this term to be right where I am saying there's too much emphasis leading to an occasional shrill sound. The accentuated part I'm hearing in upper mids/lower treble starts around 2.5k. It's below "sibilance" and I don't find Eikon sibilant at all. Naturally there is likely a slight relative dip in the bulk of the midrange between the warmer lower mids, and that 2.5k+ peak. But I'd hesitate to call it too much of a dip, or use the word "recessed", because I just don't hear the rest of the midrange as very pushed back in presentation.

    As are many, I'm curious to see measurements

    Yeah, probably. This is my first time only having one real amp in the house. Ironically I didn't listen to Eikon out of stuff at the Chicago meet because I didn't want to "waste time" on a headphone that just became mine. This was misguided. I didn't think about how awkward now just having one (very good) amp/DAC can make writing impressions of headphones, I should probably grab something like a Vali 2 as a juxtaposition. I didn't anticipate this when I let GOV2+ and some other stuff go lol.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  7. Artasia

    Artasia Friend

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    Excellent writeup. It is good there is another worthy high impedance dynamic to drive from the ZDS. I really need to audition one on my rig at some point. It sounds like a winner but not exactly affordable for me at full price; will have to wait for second-hand. Looks like you are running a Sophia 6SL7 driver, which I always felt compromised some resolution.The black ZDS, by the way, is stunning as a backdrop to the already beautiful Eikon in your photo.
     
  8. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    okay... so I think you are both right. The Eikon does not have a recessed upper midrange to my ears. It has a slight flatness in the mid range proper from 800 to 2k slightly tapered and downward sloped. @PoochZag nailed it.

    So the 6XX(modded) has the region of the upper mids accentuated but the Eikon has the lower part of the upper midrange accentuated. The 650 is more forward though regardless of balance. It is a more shouty headphone. The Eikon has a gradual decline from the sub bass downward. The Atticus has a hump in the subbass and midbass but a downward slope that is more steep and less upper mids but the midrange proper sounds less tapered because it's not followed by as strong of a rise in the upper mids. The Atticus has harder drum kicks than both of them with good focus and control but fun in presence. On the right song the Eikon sounds gorgeous with voices. Swapping to the Atticus makes the same vocals less strong in the presence region but the focus shifts more to the middle mids due to the tuning. Guitar strings have more texture and force on the Eikon. Though the Atticus can be considered to have less upper midrange, It's not a hollow dip as much as it is an even recession in comparison to the Elear.

    That is what I am hearing right now at least.
     
  9. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Does it? Good to know, haven't quite heard that yet myself. I'm still at the point where I'm switching driver tubes often (I inherited some with the amp and bought one more), so any headphone impressions are really an amalgamation of all tubes, not that tube changes are really quite enough to significantly alter headphone impressions anyway. A more thorough discussion of tubes is probably best in the ZDS thread, where I'd be curious of your thoughts and will post mine there after sometime. But in short the Sophia is becoming my favorite for sessions when using both 800 and Eikon, others are either too bright for the former or too rolled for the latter.
     
  10. AMW1011

    AMW1011 Friend

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    Interesting seeing these impressions. I'm looking forward to getting my big boy amp in to really evaluate the Eikon. I do think the Eikon has a midrange recession, specifically the upper mids. I also find the soundstage claustrophobic. I'm wondering if that's an artifact of my current modest gear. We will see. I do find the HD650 midrange nearly ideal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  11. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    I can understand the green based on the red.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  12. AMW1011

    AMW1011 Friend

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    Makes sense then, thanks.
     
  13. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    It seems that we're all taking about the same thing based on different own tastes/references. While some difference is observed, there is also some consensus. That's a good thing..
     
  14. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    I have noticed the last two times I saw ZMF setup,
    His (decware)tube amp was very thick sounding for a good tube amp.

    So I am hoping his future tube amp is more neutral, because it made the Atticus sound too thick.
    I really think he need change that tube amp he uses lol.

    I listened to the Eikon on his other setup and my mouth ALmost drop upon hearing the amount of presence a female vocal had.

    I immediately felt this can has the realism of a TOTL can .

    I was also fairly impressived that I could notice this from the gear in noisy meet conditions.

    These two cans are definitely the best thing to come around in quite a while.

    I have been having to put up in the past,
    With so many headphones initially impressive at first but which then seem like "one-trick" ponys..
    Let the bar be raised .
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  15. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    This is a pretty interesting comparison across similarly priced headphones (indeed Aornic is one of my favorite youtube reviewers). I've also owned 800s, elear, and eikon, and so from my own experience with them, I can mostly agree with this guy's points.

    Of course I am never free from owner-bias, new-toy-bias, and memory-bias tho.
     
  16. TurbinoZ100000

    TurbinoZ100000 Acquaintance

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    So, if Atticus == SuperVibro, Eikon == Super... HE500?
     
  17. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I can't tell you how much I despise that statement. It actually invoked anger for a moment.

    My Atticus doesn't sound like my Vibro. Does it have some similarities? A few. Not enough that the Atticus doesn't distinguish itself as a completely unique sounding headphone, and by a large margin I will add. It's like saying the hd800 is just a super-DT770. Get my point?

    As for the Eikon, I haven't heard anything that would make me say it's a super-(whatever) either. Show me a headphone that stays balanced and natural sounding across the entire spectrum, yet accentuates sub-bass, makes mids and vocals POP and has treble details and extension without being bright, or the whole headphone being obviously W shaped.

    Grrr
     
  18. TurbinoZ100000

    TurbinoZ100000 Acquaintance

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    I think I get it, so what you're saying is M50x is kinda like a SuperHD650?

    Sorry. D: I'm still trying to figure out which one to get so some direct reference points would be great. But I'll surrender to the fact that maybe there are none.
     
  19. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    Ok, I laughed at that. hehe. And no, the M50x isn't a Super-HD650... more of a... Super-Ether Flow C.

    Across all of the Fostex, Sennheiser, Beyer, Philips, HFM, etc. headphones I've ever heard, I couldn't say a single headphone compares directly to the A & E.

    If you like the warm and bassy fun stuff, open sound - mainly electronic music and hiphop/rap and the like - I'd suggest the Atticus all day and twice on Sundays. I've been messing around with some psytrance and trap stuff, and it just rocks those genres like none other. Pretty damn good for metal, rock, prog, and the like too.

    The more you move toward natural sounding instruments (blues, jazz, classic rock, classical, acoustic, etc) or more complex music the more you'll probably lean to the Eikon instead. If you want a fairly neutral and more even sounding headphone, that isn't completely bass-neutered and lifeless like the HD800, the get the Eikon. The Eikon is going to reveal more about your amp than you've ever heard out of a headphone, so pair wisely.

    I'll agree with what @gbeast said - the Atticus has some kind of special symmetry with good tube amps.

    If you were to draw a venn diagram, put electronic and heavily processed music on the right with the Atticus, and purely acoustic music on the left with the Eikon, the two would share the middle where metal, classic rock, and blues reside. I hope that made sense.
     
  20. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Agreed. Super-something is not very appropriate for ANY case. In general, when there are some improvements, there are some trade-offs.

    Very True.
    Well, If utopia has some more sub-bass(i.e. 7-8db at the lower end), I'd rather say that utopia is super eikon :D tho.
     

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