Life after Yggdrasil: Watering the Ash

If you manage to find a used KLIMAX DSM/1 for $2,600 let me know (that's lower than the average used price for the Magic level product, never mind Akurate or Klimax., and right now the Katalyst stuff is only available in the Klimax level gear). In general even the "Renew" versions, which are just the older boards in a very basic chassis with no display etc., change hands for more than double that. You can't upgrade a "Renew" box to Katalyst currently.

But yes as with most things if you're willing to go down the used-gear route, it's possible to pay less than $23,500 to get a current-spec Klimax DSM.

You have it backwards.

Right now, the Katalyst DAC implementation in the Klimax DS/3 (or DSM/2) is ONLY used if you're using the analog outputs from that unit into conventional power amplifiers and speakers. Though, if you're using Klimax level speakers with integrated Exakt modules, or the Klimax level Exaktboxes, then it's available without the DS/3 or DSM/3 (albeit you do not get all of the capabilities of Exakt in that configuration).

Thus for me, to take advantage of the new Katalyst stuff, I have to wait for the upgrade modules for the Exakt stands I'm using with my Akudorik speakers.

The current Linn stuff really only makes a lot of sense in an all-Linn system, and, at least until Katalyst is propagated across the range, there are number of configurations even then that don't make any logical sense irrespective of price.

But, still, the Klimax DS/3 (or DSM/2) into a conventional analog pre/power/speaker system remains top of the pile for what I've auditioned and that you can actually go out and buy.

Comparing a full-blown Katalyst level Exakt implementation to Yggdrasil is not apples-to-apples and is a bit naive. Yggdrasil is JUST a DAC. To get comparable functionality you'd need to start with a streaming interface that could drive a large number of DACs simultaneously, and then 1x Yggdrasil for each pair of drive units (so four of them for a pair of 4-way speakers). Then you'd need custom filters on each of those for each drive unit. Add something to do proper room and space compensation/correction. Add something to do drive-unit compensation (and get your drivers properly measured). Dedicated high-end power amplification for each drive-unit (since this is a fully active setup), and that's the basics. Then you need a better-than-many-studio's-grade ADC and a pre-amp. And, finally, a way to synchronize all of that across a network.

 

@Torq ,the SPACE optimization will pass from this Linn unit from the balanced or unbalanced outputs to my amp and then my speakers, correct?

It would seem a waste if it didn't, but the manual for SPACE seems to indicate that it does not. But then again, it looks as if the manual might be flipping what someone from the US would call inputs and outputs.

"Space optimization may be applied to all external inputs for Linn products. The SPDIF/TOSLINK, HDMI & headphone outputs will not output space optimization, these outputs pass the unprocessed audio feed."

Weird? Maybe.

 

I think it's pretty clear cut: Digital out and headphone out is unmolested, everything else (unbal RCA, bal XLR etc) can be.

 

Yes, if you enable it. It's optional.

As @Grahad2 says, it reads correctly All sources/inputs can be space-optimized, and the results output over the analog outputs. It would make no sense for the headphone output, since the room doesn't have an effect there, and the digital outputs are all pass-through.

 

Listening sessions for the Ross Martin PCM1794A, Concero HD and Mousai MSD192 are complete. Thoughts/notes/commentary on those will show up this week, possibly starting today.

Thanks to @atomicbob for the loan of those! (I'll ping you separately to arrange getting them back to you).

...

Then the Modi MB/Bifrost MB/Gungnir MB/Yggdrasil write-up(s) will be next.

 

Oh, great- genuinely curious about the Ross Martin unit. Please let it be better than their awful and bewildering website. We're overdue another hidden gem.

 

Given the price, could you also compare the Ross Martin unit (if it's good) to the other DACs in the Schiit lineup?

 

Certainly can.

I'll likely include some level of commentary on comparably priced units anyway going forward ... which given the breadth of price-points that Schiit covers, and my familiarity with, and access to, them will probably means I always include at least some basic/high-level inline comparison to the two-closest units in terms of price.

 

That would be a big help! While I love the Schiit DACs, lately I've been wanting to dip my toes into other waters to see if I like them.

 

Amen. Schiit make great DACs, but it feels weird not to have some solid alternatives to consider.

 

sorry if I'm late to the party but do you intend to post a new write-up about Yggdrasil? not sure if there are upcoming news on this front...?

 

I've never actually posted a specific write-up about Yggdrasil - everything I've said about that unit has been by way of comparison to whatever other DAC(s) it was being evaluated against. So, what I'm talking about here is simply impressions/review of the four Schiit multi-bit DACs against each other - keeping Yggdrasil as the principal reference.

And that'd be based on my original Yggdrasil purchased in 2015, as beyond any minor running changes that I don't know about, it's the same unit you'd receive if you ordered from Schiit right now.

 

thanks for clarifying

 

Hi!

'Thanks' one-liners are usually frowned upon in these lands as it generally adds noise and contributes nothing of substance. It is much better to use the Like button instead.

And if you haven't done so already please read carefully the pointers in this thread:
http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/must-read-for-new-members.3/

It should help you to avoid the common pitfalls that newcomers encounter when joining SBAF.

Good luck!

 

Dear Audiophiles:

There are DACs offering USB input, AOIP via Ethernet (very much looking forward to B2 Bomber DAC with Dante connectivity review by @Torq), and various analog options.

I am curious to learn if there are (or to be introduced to the market in the near future) any DACs offering input supporting Thunderbolt 3 protocol via, for example, USB-C connector.

In my understanding, Thunderbolt, used as audio interface, would be the best: it can send and receive data directly from the computer’s memory, with little or no involvement of the computer’s CPU. Therefore, almost zero latency! From this perspective it should be far superior to USB, and just way, way faster than Ethernet.

 

Digital audio bit rates top out at around 20Mbps and in most cases are well under 10Mbps, so speed is not much of a concern, given that even USB 2.0 tops out at 480Mbps. As for latency, it matters for gaming and AV sync, but not too much for music. Those two characteristics are much less important than subtler issues that affect sound quality, such as electrical noise carried from computer to DAC by the conductors in the digital cable. Whether Thunderbolt would improve on that relative to USB is an empirical question, not one that can be answered from the simple digital specs you allude to.

 

Thunderbolt also involves a hefty licensing fee and is still incredibly under-implemented on Windows rigs. So in addition to being overkill, it is pricy and not well-supported. A large part of the Thunderbolt spec also involves being able to daisy chain, carry signal for multiple monitors, USB hub, etc.

 

As @earnmyturns and @Azteca have said, there are a number of issues, and not much benefit, to using Thunderbolt as an audio interface.

It'll happen with studio gear, but mostly because it has low latency and a ton of bandwidth, which are important when running, and synchronizing a large number of discrete audio channels. For simple, stereo, audio, you want things as simple as possible - a place where Thunderbolt will have much higher switching noise than even USB (though probably not as outrageously noisy as USB 3.0 has been, especially in terms of radiated noise), and offers nothing of real benefit.

And, of course, fifteen seconds after the first Thunderbolt-equipped consumer-relevant DAC does show up, some wise ass will be announcing a "re-clocker" to fix non-existent clock problems - just as we see with USB Audio today. That, or they'll tout how "low noise" they are, while still feeding a super-noisy receiver in the DAC itself.

 

There's always firewire.

It was holding its own in commercial equipment for a long time. USB was finding it hard to get a look in. How much firewire is still in use in studios?

 

Firewire has a similar set of implementation complexity/noise issues as USB.