SBAF DAC Talk II

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Maxx134, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Let's do that when I get the gear in. You are local, and I know actually have real interest rather than simple curiosity. I'd rather these high dollar items go on a limited loaner to those actually interested in acquiring a new DAC.
     
  3. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    I loves me some Rush as much as the next fan, but there was a reason they called him "no feel" Neil for the longest time.

    I'd love to hear a dac off between those dacs mentioned above. I wish I had more time to listen when we did a short dac off between the Crane Song Solaris and the Yggdrasil A2 at one of the micro meets over the summer. A couple of folks didn't think the Yggdrasil A2 killed the Solaris at all.
     
  4. roscoeiii

    roscoeiii Acquaintance

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    Looks like this split offf from another thread. What is the DAC being referred to in the first post? Could we get a link to the other thread for context?
     
  5. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Dangerous Music Source - there's a little arrow up by where it says "Decomo said:" at the top of that post that will get you back there.
     
  6. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    I use my Source over USB, which is what I bought it for. Otherwise I would have gotten the D-Box as it has more features like a mono button, which is very useful. The USB chipset is mains-powered XMOS with C-Entrance firmware and it only works with ASIO on Windows. People buying this for Spotify can go to hell. The USB works far better than bus-powered C-Media chipsets and the dysfunctional XMOS found in lots of Chinese gear.

    The older Dangerous Music gear (the original monitor, D-Box, and Source) has no internal clock over AES/EBU and simply slaves to the received clock signal. AES sounded fine when I have tried it fed from a few things (CD players, interface cards, and a chifi dap once). If you don't have a great modern external clock (or a modern interface or convertor using one that can function as a master clock and output that over AES) then there is no point except convenience (or chain-necessary slaving) in using the AES input. The Source has a more modern AES/SPDIF receiver chip (goes to 24-bit, 192khz) than the Dbox (24-bit, 96khz) so I'm not sure if it will be as reactive to clock setting tinkering and different players as D-Box was.

    No poor quality, jittery source will give you the fishtank sound you're looking for.
     
  7. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    If you haven't already heard it, you might like the DigiOne Signature as a source. Very sharp, clear, detailed, no bloat or muck, etc. with just the basic switching PSUs you can get from them. Were this unit I have not a loaner, it would easily replace all my other sources. Even the best USB implementations to me sound too grey, hazy, or not particularly coherent, in a relative sense. Only real downsides are A) you have to deal with using a Raspberry Pi and B) only RCA/BNC SPDIF outputs.
     
  8. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  9. winders

    winders boomer

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  10. Huhnkopf

    Huhnkopf Friend

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  11. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Basically fixes the original's slightly lean nature and refines/smooths the top end while gaining in overall clarity, resolution, etc. I'll have more to say on it later.
     
  12. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    It stands far away from the pack, even the best DigiONE/502DAC

    Follow the ref links--> you'll get the gist of my thoughts on it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  13. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Yeah, no easy i2s access. I asked them during the development phase (original digiOne) tapping into i2s compromises the signal on this design (dedicated SPDIF).
     
  14. winders

    winders boomer

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    I2S output and NAA support would make for an interesting product. Are you aware of any quality product that does I2S and NAA? I am looking for a something to use with Roon/HQPlayer and my PS Audio DirectStream DAC. For some reason, Roon using RAAT does not sound as good as Roon using HQPlayer using NAA even when using no HQPlayer filters or noise shaping.
     
  15. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Honestly, I have been thinking so until recent.

    You should check this out:
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-synergy-special-sound.54/page-29#post-229076

    I have no idea how generalizable it could be (it must be situation/rig/clocker-dependent imo), but it's enough for me to think relevant issues more flexibly, of course including "clocks matter".
     
  16. winders

    winders boomer

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    Yes, I saw that. I viewed that as more of a science experiment than something to put into practical use. I have to look at the cost of that solution versus the benefit. What is the real audible benefit? I see the scope output, but how does that translate to what we actually hear? And why on earth would you spend that much money with a $250 or even a $2400 DAC? How about investing that money in a better DAC with a better clock? What about inputs other than SPDIF? How does the clocking affect USB or I2S? I don't use SPDIF on my 2 channel system because it does not support higher than 24/192.

    I understand that some people can throw stuff like that setup together because they use the hardware for testing or other purposes. But, is that something the average SBAF person is recommended to purchase and use?
     
  17. direstraitsfan98

    direstraitsfan98 D2Girls v2.0

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    Come listen to Rush on my system... I don't think you'd be saying that once the skin on your face starts peeling off. I'm a bit defensive since I'm a big time Rush and Neil fan but I'm telling ya, you ain't heard Rush unless you heard it on horn loudspeakers. Or live, I guess. But the drum kit on YYZ hits you like a mule. It's visceral and supremely powerful sounding. The soul is there, at least for me. I'd love to hear the Convert 2 as I figure it would have just as much if not more slam than the Source.
     
  18. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    My take on bob's experiment was "clocking or reclocking can improve (converted) signal quality for some situations (no matter whether it is audible - it's beyond the scope)", which generated the following speculation: Maybe it can be achieved at lower prices (considering the price nature of lab grade machines) or 20-80 rule may work.

    So, I am thinking Hands and Scott's recommendation may make sense, because underlying logic sounds similar. Will I immediately buy and use digione sig? Prol not. That's a totally different story and my humble ears are quite satisfied with the current converter straight via crappy usb.

    The SoS article you linked was interesting, but it cannot be a sufficient reason to publicly distrust some working (or maybe not-working) idea. There were so many situational differences that must be considered.
     
  19. winders

    winders boomer

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    No, I think DigiOne Signature makes a lot of sense. The better clock setup makes a ton of sense. Less jitter and less phase noise will provide better sound and you can’t argue with the price point.
     
  20. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Cost-benefit calculation is highly subjective and personal, as is the ability to hear (or imagine) differences and to care about them. Clocks matter. Maybe they make digital less sucky, maybe they don't. Now all we need are magnetic cables to align electrons and stop them from smearing everyone's audio chains.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018

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