Campfire Audio Solaris - raising the bar?

Discussion in 'IEMs and Portable Gear' started by mscott58, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,051
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sounds like these scale well but are good out of a variety of sources. I love my Andromedas but dislike that I only really love them out of the ZX2.
     
  2. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    42°S
    Can anyone comment on Solaris performance (especially with regards to hiss) straight out of an iphone dongle? Simple is good.
     
  3. Rlin987

    Rlin987 New

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2018
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Food Utopia
    From what I heard from my friend it’s really good with phone and easy to drive (LG v30), not sure about iPhone dongle yet I will try once I get mine.
     
  4. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

    Staff Member Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,893
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Seattle
    @jowls I can test this on a couple of iPhone dongles tomorrow. I use the dongles all the time while commuting and while running, so performance from a phone dongle is an important factor to me.

    I've put a little over 80 hours on these with a WM1A so far and am very impressed with them. After I spend more time with them over the week, I'll definitely post my thoughts.

    However, If I were to sum up a comparison between the Solaris and the PP8 so far, it's best quote @mscott58 (out of context) from his impressions:

     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    It works fine from Pixel 2 dongle in a pinch. Per impedance measurements, Solaris will not be affected as much as Andromeda from different Z outs. Still need to be somewhat careful of Z out though, i.e. 12 ohms out will make them slightly brighter.

    A heck of a lot more resolving from ZX2 though. I've read reports of Solaris being hot in the mid-treble. I can see this from leaner sounding AIOs like Chord Mono - but no such issues from the more organic and smoother top end of the ZX2.
     
  6. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    near Munich, Germany
    Deutsche Hifi Tage Impressions Part 3: Solaris

    Part 1: PP8
    Part 2: Andromeda S

    Given the hype around these that Merv generated I was super curious to hear the Solaris myself. Sadly I found out that the ones at the show were brand new without any burn in. I only used them with silicone tips. Once again I only used my S8 (Snapdragon variant) to drive them. I was especially curious to hear what is apparently a very coherent DD-BA hybrid design since all the ones I've heard have been super incoherent. I'd rather listen to either a good multi BA IEM or a good single driver DD IEM than a hybrid.

    Well, without any burn in the Solaris didn't really do anything to change my mind on that. First up it was too bassy for my tastes (like almost all of the CA IEMs except the Andromeda from a high Zout source) and the bass seemed sluggish. It's probably lower distortion than the Andromeda, but it didn't feel responsive enough, which is unfortunate since I think other DD IEMs do this a lot better. I hope this would improve with burn in. The overall bass level seemed a bit higher than the Andro from my S8, but I don't think the Solaris will be as picky with output impedance, so it's definitely tuned more for those who prefer a lot of lower mids or a U shaped FR. The bass sounded like a hybrid between the Equinox and a BA so maybe both the DD and BA drivers are run in parallel for the whole range? Not sure. Considering how bassy the CA DD IEMs are I don't think any of them hit particularly hard and the Solaris didn't either.
    I also felt the midrange was a bit odd, almost like the PP8, but not as bad. It seemed like it was going for a very smooth and relaxed sound overall, but then there's an emphasis at 3kHz. Not too unlike the PP8 really, just more relaxed overall and with a lot more lower mids. The Vega (and Equinox, but the midrange reminded me more of the Vega tuning up to 2kHz) seemed to have a more cohesive sound overall.
    The treble was also uneven, with a sibilance spot that seemed to affect cymbal rendering, too. A bit too sharp sounding overall. I used the silicone tips, so maybe foam tips could smoothen the treble. Getting deep insertion with these shells wasn't easy for me. I could've probably gotten a bit deeper insertion though and I guess that would've helped.
    What was super disappointing to me was that I felt like the soundstage was artificially widened without enough depth and layering. Imaging wasn't as good as the UERM (and probably Andro) to me, either. I know that's not what Marv heard and I'm not sure why. Could be that the Solaris would need a much better source than the S8 to truly show its imaging capabilites, but the UERM doesn't and it still scales like crazy with better gear.
    The coherency also wasn't as good as I'd hoped. If the bass gets a lot faster with a more dynamic and raw timbre after burn in I could see it working out. I tried it again in the evening of the 2nd day and I didn't think it was any better. They didn't get burned in over night, so all the use time they had was from when people listened to them on the two days. Maybe a couple hours total.
    Just as the bass that didn't hit as hard as I'd have hoped I expected more from the macrodynamics. Clarity and resolution also wasn't as good as I expected, but microdynamics seemed quite good. I also felt like the dynamic driver sounded too damped overall for its own good compared to the raw nature of the BAs.

    Overall I think I'd take the Equinox over the Solaris with EQ. And I'd also rather listen to the Andromeda than the Solaris. Maybe a better source and burn in could change my mind. Especially the imaging was a weird one to me - I expected it to be quite good. But I do think it has potential. Maybe the next TOTL hybrid IEM from Campfire Audio will be it, or maybe the one after that in 2020. Given how much IEMs improved since 2012 it's probably 2025. You'd think by now we'd have BA drivers that extend past 20kHz without weird resonance issues, but that just doesn't seem to be the case (apart from the TWFK).

    Part 4: Vega next up
     
  7. seamon

    seamon Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Indiana
    ^ I can confirm some of the stuff in the above post. Straight out of the box, I heard some sibilance spots but the Treble settled in and became smoother significantly after burn in. I can't hear any sibilance now. The bass changes are night and day with burn in, it's just so much faster and tactile now after 5 days. The Imaging comment is a little odd to me however as I think Solaris Imaging performance is superb right out of my LG V35
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Godammit. Burn the damn thing in. The suspensions on those particular DD and BA drivers are probably like that on phono carts. 75 hours. The bass leaned out and got faster around 40 hours. The 75 hour mark was when the BA drivers got super resolving.

    Straight out of box, it sounds choked up high and thick and slow down low. @KenBall usually does not tell me to burn in his IEMs. With this one, he did.
     
  9. seamon

    seamon Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Indiana
    After burn in, would you say the Solaris has what it takes to replace Andromeda completely?
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Here's the deal: If you really love the super articulate BA lows and how the Andromeda renders the mids and highs, stick with Andromeda.

    I appreciate what BA drivers can do, but over the long haul, I can't say I am a fan of their timbre. I've just stuck with them because their positives outweighed the negatives.

    While I would have preferred an all DD design with the same tuning from Campfire, I can only surmise what @KenBall was trying to achieve. My bet is that he wanted a certain level of speed and tight transients in the highs, therefore he felt the BA drivers were the most appropriate. Everything is a matter of trade-offs. Past all the acronyms, the BA drivers in the Solaris, while sounding from the same family, have had incremental improvements from the Andromeda. Less of that BA timbre, a little bit more "exquisite" for lack of a better term, and more resolving, rendering fine details, than Andromeda (at least from ZX2 - from Pixel 2, it didn't make a difference).

    The tuning of the Solaris is totally up my alley. The tuning is more for the critical listener, and less the DF / upper-mid-heads, or bassheads. There is less perceived bass than Andromeda (after burn-in, silicone tips, deeper insertion) from near zero source impedance. More of a 2-3kHz closer to UERM, but not quite there, and just so slightly laid back in the rest of the upper mids. (I'm not sure is PP8 people will like the Solaris because of this). Quite a few have commented on silblance or mid-treble peaks, but I don't hear it. This could be a matter of different physiology of different people, i.e. ear canal length, structures inside the ear, etc.

    After 30-40 hours burn-in, I already couldn't look back at the Andromeda. Anything after 75 hours burn-in was just icing on the cake: further integration between lows and highs, and where the highs really took off in terms of rendering fine detail. Now do the BA drivers still sound like BA drivers? Yes they do. Same for the DD drivers, they still sound like DD (well at least like a fast DD to my knowledge only Campfire has been able to pull off). The DD bass is still a little bit slower than the BA drivers in the Andromeda, but in return, we got added physicality and a less dry and richer midrange. I don't want to make it seem like Ken has figured out how to make BA and DD drivers sound the same. However, the areas where they merge, are as seamless as could be.

    For the record, I did not listen to the Solaris throughout the burn-in process. I kept with Andromeda and listened in at specific points during the burn-in process. More interesting this way and I'm pretty patient when it comes to these things.

    Let me summon @brencho. He had a listen while he was over at my place yesterday.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Still takes the cake in terms of instrument localization. Too bad UE doesn't make it anymore.
     
  12. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    42°S
    Holy shit. I was content to ride off into the sunset with Andromeda, but now I definitely need to hear Solaris.

    How would you compare the treble response? Does the richer midrange kill/mask any of the air up top? Andro treble is pretty much perfect for me.
     
  13. seamon

    seamon Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Indiana
    In my opinion, Andromeda is just 1% more extended up top but Solaris is 99% there. Solaris is dead neutral imo with no single frequency range dominating anything else. I thought the Andromeda Treble was a little bit bright (albeit I did not try different sources), the Solaris Treble is absolutely perfect for me.
     
  14. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,028
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Philly - Yo
    Amen to all of this. Was going to post my own thoughts, but then Marv comes and says it better than I possibly could, dangit.
     
  15. KenBall

    KenBall Owner - Campfire Audio

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,078
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Home Page:
    Just back from Shanghai.

    More yammering from yours truly.

    I do not expect everyone to be blown away, but pretty damned happy so far.

    The show setting I was at was kind of noisy and with silicone tips I found that the isolation was not very good, not a excuse just a observation. At the show my Germany dealer I guess did not burn them in it sounds like? He is not a seasoned IEM guy but a solid hifi dude and all around awesome person and does have good ears. When he demoed the Solaris at the Munich HiFi show last year he was moved and was a real honor for me personally. Im sorry we did not have any time to do any burn ins but they still should have sounded really good so not a excuse. I do not expect everyone to love them, this is impossible and a unreasonable expectation. Sometimes also I am not wowed with anything and I think ear fatigue is in play? This varies quite a bit from wow! to eh.. with the same IEM again at different times, same here not a excuse just a observation. I would hope that folks would take a grain of salt for the WOW!!!! posts and the, "these are shit" posts and aggregate the ones in the middle if you unable to get a demo.

    Purr1n's take mirrored my experience then articulated it way better that I ever could, I no good with the words sometimes/all the time.

    I was really surprised by the burn in on the Solaris, extra severe but then again I have some theories here. I was pretty proud of them new but really had to bust out diapers after burn in.

    Caleb, JD and I here are really enjoying all the feedback on the interwebs and look forward to getting more out the door so more people can report out, thank you very much for my over seas customers patience. I am not motivated to garner positive posts or sales, we are full up and are struggling to make enough in a timely way. Were small, lean and have relatively low overhead and are good. I do get easily butt hurt personally when people on forums trash our stuff, totally a pride thing though. I so want to be respected by my peers and customers first and foremost, if I succeed at this then payroll will be taken care of.

    Kb
     
  16. seamon

    seamon Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Indiana
    ^ There are hardly any middle ground reviews. People either love almost everything about them or dismiss them straight away (2 reviews).
     
  17. xtreme4099

    xtreme4099 New

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Maple Valley, WA
    Ordered. Also have the Atlas and Andro...should be an interesting comparison ;) Will report back with snazzy audio verbs and nouns between the 3 Amigos, once I get them.
     
  18. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The biggest issue I had with the Andros (besides BA timbre) was that I heard their lower mids as receded and thin, perhaps to give a better sense of separation. Cellos and male voices lacked the full bodied-ness the require to sound real.

    Do the Solaris do better here?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  19. Crinacle

    Crinacle Friend

    Staff Member Pyrate IEMW MZR
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    812
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    SG
    Home Page:
    Are you referring to the Andro on near-0 Z-out? I found Andro in that condition to be already be pretty thick sounding.
     
  20. seamon

    seamon Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Indiana
    This was one of the biggest complaints with the Andro. Vocals sounded very thin and lacked body. Solaris completely solves this. Male Vocals have good body and sound very articulate. Female vocals are just beautiful.
     

Share This Page