General Speaker Advice and Recommendations

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by shotgunshane, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,051
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Until you're doing HT and pick output + extension to 15Hz. Then 18" in 11cu ft cabinets start to sound like a good idea. Esp when your mains happily play down to 40Hz and you add 4 sealed 12s in nearfield.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I'm going to end up with a wall of woofers behind a screen and a 3.5' shorter family room.
     
  3. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Finland
    How do you manage all that? I mean time delays with all those subs?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  4. Btdk34

    Btdk34 Facebook Friend

    BWC
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    33
    In a slightly similar vein, I thought the bass from my OSMTMs was great when I first heard them. Going to dual 15” woofers, there’s just no comparison, it’s so effortless.
     
  5. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Estonia
    IB can't be beaten. Cut woofer holes to the bedroom/living room wall, so you can enjoy IB bass there too.
    That's what I plan to do in my house now.
     
  6. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,758
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Jackson, Mi
    My cousin would definitely be a member of the BWC. His living room speakers are home made, each with a 15" Jensen for bass, 12" Crate (from a guitar amp) for low-mids and 1" Electro Voice horn for mids-highs. They sounds ok at normal volumes but give it some juice and it sounds pretty good.

    Edit: old pic. Running off a pioneer head unit and a pc power supply with strong 12v rails.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Haha. This is what happens when I'm on a plane bored to death. The stewardesses are always so nice. They give me extra bottles of Woodford Reserve and handfuls of KitKats because I am so gracious and nice to them - acknowledging how difficult their jobs are - while at the same time enaging in pointless arguments HF style and suggesting how I was going to back in time to kill the guy who invented castanets.

    LOL, you guys need to warn the unsuspecting what happens when I am on a plane with diminished O2 levels + alcohol.

    BTW, I really did want to know how many were using big woofers. Gives me a better sense of the community.
     
  8. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

    Pyrate Banned
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Trophy Points:
    93
    genelec 1037b here for the living room. 12 inch woofers. can I be in the club?
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
  10. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But you're selling them, you infidel!

    P.S. I have 2x12" per channel in a 200l box tuned to 23Hz. In half space each can pull off 116dB at port frequency. In room -6dB point is at 15Hz.
     
  11. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Well i think my S7R's are in the same vein as HD650 and Focal Clear when it comes to timbre and tonality. Non fatiguing listen all day quality. Punchy and smooth. They do need a sub though even in nearfield.
     
  12. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
  13. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Be sure to horn load them.
     
  14. Muse Wanderer

    Muse Wanderer Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Likes Received:
    946
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Malta
    I can die happy having lived with 4x 15 inchers OBs on my PAP trio 15 Voxativ for the past 16 months. Effortless defined bass to die for, and to top it all, hefty organic lower mids that seam well with an excellent widebander. Big thanks to @Serious for showing me the way!
     
  15. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    Exactly. It isn't sufficient having the surface area to generate low distortion low frequency content, but the room must also be designed to utilize it properly. Otherwise it is just a mental masturbation.
     
  16. zonto

    zonto Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,975
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Could you please elaborate on this point about the room? Trying to learn.
     
  17. westermac

    westermac Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,245
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Milly-wau-kay
    @purr1n I vote to include 12's in the BWC to account for those in smaller rooms.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but an 18" woofer presents no real bass advantage for me in a 15 m² room that a pair of 12's can't deliver (unless you're counting sensitivity, eardrum-rupturing SPL levels, and penis points). Extension at 20Hz and below is no problemo.

    If anything, the lower mass of a 12" will be more responsive and better suited.

    A "big woofer" is relative to space. You can poopoo on 6" woofer bass all you want, but it would kick ass in a giant pair of headphones.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  18. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,070
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Cape Town, South Africa
    How big are the rooms you guys have? Damn...the wee 8" Genelec 7050B is way enough for my (admittedly smallish) space. Maybe it's that laminar spiral thing...-3dB is at 25Hz, 100dB.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    A 15" won't be any less responsive or "slower" or less "fast" than a smaller woofer. This is a very common misperception. My experience has actually been the opposite, finding the various 15" drivers to sound "faster" than smaller drivers. Larger woofers up to a certain point also tend to be more efficient than smaller ones with diminishing returns past a certain point. "Responsiveness" is all about magnet strength vs mass (not mass alone), inductance, efficiency, mechanical damping, and compliance.

    A 12" woofer (true woofer duties, not subwoofer), depending upon the implementation, might still not reach 20Hz. It's tradeoffs, long throw inefficient woofers with their big ass thick rubber surrounds and massive crusty spiders will reach low, but at the cost of efficiency and transient response. This is one of the reasons why I prefer drivers with low Xmax in general.

    A woofer larger than 12", all things being equal, gets us more bass extension, and with more surface area, lower distortion at a given SPL. Don't discount efficiency either. Think of efficiency as FREE power. 4db more efficient is like having a power amp with x2.5 more power. Your 100W power amp just became a 250W power amp. The decreased distortion or "ease" going to 15" from 12" is notable, even at moderate levels in a 160 sqft room. It's nice to know that the SPL capability is there when needed, like for Michael Bay movies.

    It's not about penis points or running at ear-splitting levels. My car has 475hp. I rarely use all of it (there is not enough room in El Lay, or sadly, even on Highway 5 up to the SF Bay Area anymore), but it does come in handy and makes normal driving on the highway so much easier.

    Finally, the only reason a big woofer is relative to space would be the size of the box required. A 15" woofer is typically going to need about x2.5-3 the volume as a 12", all things being equal. From an acoustics point of view, there is no reason. A 15" with the same response as a 12" or 10" isn't going to sound bassier in a smaller room.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  20. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep in many rooms and listening positions, the bigger and better speaker will be worse than the smaller one that “fakes” extension. Larger woofers and additional drivers mean you have to sit further back to get everything to blend right and more extended bass. Thus you will hear more room boxes. The 1000 dollar pair of 5-7” woofer two ways might actually perform better in YOUR room than the way better in a PERFECT room three way that can be listened to just a another half meter away.

    This doesn’t even get into the midrange issues faced by two ways with larger woofers or three ways with super large woofers that require you to be really far back, limiting the perceived detail from the midrange dome or not even allowing the using of a midrange domed drivers. The further back you have to be, the less detail even if you get better extension too. Everything is a design choice and compromise except for the ridiculous and lo-fi that pervades the internet and audio shows.
     

Share This Page