Schiit Bifrost 2

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by RobS, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Was replying when @purr1n already did. As he indicated, Unison has far better dynamics and eliminates all the roundness of Eitr, while at the same time, it takes away all the etch and fatigue from Gen 5 USB. For me it was the best of both worlds: great detail, dynamics and immediacy, even better separation and blackground than Gen 5, but a complete lack of etch and fatigue, which is the reason I had been preferring Eitr over Gen 5. My Eitr hasn’t been touched since Unison.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    ^ This

    Unison = best of Gen 5 + best of Eitr + magic pixie dust
     
  3. AudioNut

    AudioNut Acquaintance

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    There's nothing in the AD5781 datasheet indicating that it must be run balanced. The "Typical application circuit" shown towards the end is single-ended. However, you may be right that running balanced helps with glitching. If you compare the AP measurements Schiit has posted for the Modi Multibit versus the Bifrost 2, you can see that there does appear to be more glitch energy showing up in the Bifrost 2's output. If it wasn't for the more prominent 2nd harmonic, which is probably not due to glitching, the Modi Multibit would be the better measuring device.

    (Not to say this has anything to do with sound quality, and it didn't stop me from ordering a Bifrost 2. But I am curious how a Modi Multibit with Unison would sound.)
     
  4. westermac

    westermac Friend

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    Ha. That's definitely happening, Gungnirs for sale already. It'll give the Bifrost 2 a solid launch until January (or whenever Gungnir and Yggdrasil receive Unison) when I suspect the spotlight will shift back to the big brothers (at least that's my hunch as my Gungnir A2 isn't going anywhere). It's good to see Bifrost getting some love though after suffering from middle child syndrome for awhile (I say this as the third born of four).

    This is great to hear. I've been limited to using Gungnir A2 via Gen 5 so far; if this is what etched and fatiguing sounds like I guess I'm in for a treat.
     
  5. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Between just normal S/PDIF and the Unision in my normal Bifrost, there was only a slight bit of haze removed. It was different though. I could not believe my ears it was Foobar and normal WASAPI over USB. Clean and clear from the bottom to the top.

    With my Pi3 that has an I2S to SPDIF hat that is transformer coupled, very comparable to Eitr, and I thought the USB on the Unison sounded better. As now I almost want to go back to a laptop with Windows and USB just to use it. Comparatively, Marv is right on (as mostly always) with it sounding sharper and less rounded. So detail retrieval is just about amazing as you can get really.
     
  6. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Obviously YCMV (your chain may vary), but for mine it definitely took some hardness out of the treble and mids while improving just about everything else.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    That would be dumb, unless one wanted to go back the older Gungnir A1 tone.
     
  8. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Would running a balanced to SE cable/transformer (from Gungnir Multibit) into a SE amp compromise performance compared to just running true balanced into a balanced amp?

    In other words, if one has a SE amp, are they better off with the DAC with the better SE implementation vs. trying to convert the better DAC's balanced into SE?

    I hope that makes sense.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    BAL--SE with a high-quality 1:1 transformer = BAL outputs.

    Maybe even better if the transformer imparts subjective improvements, e.g., drive, expansive space, etc.
     
  10. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    If you believe the APx555, it doesn't matter. Bifrost 2 measures better than Gungnir Multibit, so either the whole spec thing is overblown (YES) or INL doesn't correlate to THD.

    In any case, it really really doesn't matter, because the hardcore measurements guys will turn up their nose at ANY multibit design because it won't measure as well as delta-sigma on steady-state signals. If you want to chase numbers, we have Modi 3, a very nice delta-sigma DAC.
     
  11. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I will also add, Marv might be confusing some of you...

    Not everyone has a TOTL transport. So, Unison bests pretty much everything I have and he even says everything else he has. So hopefully that clears things up.
     
  12. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    I was always getting occasional pops and clicks with USB, even gen5 on the Gungnir Multibit no matter which software I was running (fb, jriver, etc). Has unison been pretty consistent in clearing up these problems, or will the problem always be on the PC end?
     
  13. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    It's so different I really seriously thought it was broken the first time I heard it, because there was no possible way a USB input could sound *that* different. I didn't believe it until we finally had one stable to run on the APx555 and I saw that it wasn't doing anything weird (all the AP tests on Bifrost 2 were done via ASIO2WASAPI and Unison USB.)
     
  14. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    Because even after Unison lite is rolled out to their cheaper DACs, they could still benefit from having a Unison Eitr in front of them. Lots of people on this forum run an Eitr in front of the Modi Multibit or Modi 3.
     
  15. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Would also be watering it down having to do a SPDIF conversion out then in again on the dac, Unison is straight i2s into the dac. Probably why Eitr is only so good.
     
  16. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    When I talked about a Unison USB Eitr with Mike, he said that he didn't like to convert back to an inferior format--and he really really really didn't like the idea of Unison USB's performance being dependent on the SPDIF section of the following device.

    But that's all just incidental. Here's the real reason there won't be a Unison USB Eitr: they're not selling. If it was selling like Mani, oh hey yabetcha there'd be a Unison USB Eitr right around the corner.
     
  17. leafy

    leafy Facebook Friend

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    Unison might even be straight BWD to the DAC chips, remembering @baldr 's preference to throw i2s out.
     
  18. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

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    Now, a Eitr-like box with I2S output...

    Business wise, I can see the motivation challenges for schit to come out with an improved Eitr, but Jason and crew have always demonstrated that admirable trait of wanting to design / sell game changing hardware / firmware.

    Here's hoping. Unison with I2S out, with the I2S being configurable - would be pretty damn cool.
     
  19. ohshitgorillas

    ohshitgorillas Friend

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    To hear there won't be a standalone Unison is heartbreaking, to be honest. I was really, really looking forward to that. I did my part by buying a Wyrd, and an Eitr and would absolutely have bought a Unison Eitr, hell, maybe two.
     
  20. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    How insensitive to input is Unison? My understanding is that a stock RPi has terrible USB for a number of "it costs $35" reasons -- will that matter for a Unison input?
     

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