How much distortion can you hear?

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    We can make additional achievement badges for the following:
    1. Listening room at 10dbA SPL.
    2. Ability to detect harmonics 100db down
     
  2. skem

    skem Friend

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    Sign me up. Also, “KIA” badges for know-it-all’s. ;-)
     
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Why do the actual test tracks sound like shit?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Because you haven't hit -100db distortion on the test yet.
     
  5. GoldilocksEars

    GoldilocksEars New

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  6. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I can't seem to get past +9dB. :/
     
  7. kkl10

    kkl10 New

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    Done during the night at normal listening volume. My hearing is crap during the day. Can't avoid some background noise.

    -24/27dB, T. Chapman, JVC Flats (with Dunu 75 ohms impedance adapter)
    -30/33dB, T. Chapman, modified GMP400
    -30/33dB, J. Stone, modified GMP400
    -42dB, two-tone 70-800Hz, modified GMP400

    Both headphones driven by a Meridian Explorer 2, not ideal for the GMP but whatever. With the JVC Flats the -24/27dB range was about as difficult as the 33/36 range on the GMP. The nature of the differences changes as the distortion goes down. Too much time in my hands...
     
  8. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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  9. Philimon

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    - Full Range, Tracy Chapman
    - Macbook > Eitr > Modi MBv2 > Vali2+ > T50RP > I suck!
    - used comfortable listening volume...

    Screen Shot 2022-10-30 at 9.57.44 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2022-10-30 at 9.58.39 AM.png
    T50RP FPC.jpg
    ^ T50RP on flat plate coupler. Very lightly modded, stock pads. Ive owned briefly while awaiting parts for Open Alpha. Will be interesting to redo this test but with HE500 which is quite more balanced sounding. I suspect T50RP upper mids - treble dip reduced audibility of vocal distortion. We'll see, brb.

    edit: fixed chain - forgot to name amp used
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
  10. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    - Full Range, Tracy Chapman
    - Macbook > Eitr > Modi MBv2 > Vali2+ HE500 > I still suck!
    - used comfortable listening volume...

    Both T50RP and HE500 trials were first attempts. After the general graininess (think bit rate compression) dried up I wasnt sure what to look for. Id like to blame the noise floor in my home for my low scores obviously.

    Screen Shot 2022-10-30 at 2.52.44 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2022-10-30 at 2.52.52 PM.png
    HE500 dekvel t50rp.jpg
    ^ HE500 on EARS using Dekoni T50RP velour pads.

    edit: fixed chain - forgot to name amp used
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
  11. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    upload_2022-11-2_14-13-52.png

    Ran twice (one for Tracy Chapman and the other for J Stone). The worse result attached.
    Done with DCA Stealth and SMSL combos (SMSL M500.3 dac + SMSL HO200 headamp) -- possibly benefited from my low-distortion gears. I might give it another try with more distorting gears later.
     
  12. tatsugiri

    tatsugiri Acquaintance

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    My subjective experience has been that high frequency distortion causes pretty noticable detail loss in the decays of low-end frequency notes.

    The Auralic Vega's default reconstruction filter (mode 4) creates tons of distortion above 18khz -- Auralic chose this after conducting listening tests with Chinamen, and they probably preferred that for making it sound more "topping", idk -- whereas even the company itself tells you that Mode 1 measures much more ideally (ASR verified that too), and when I A/B them, I don't notice anything going on in the highs because there isn't a lot of music above 18khz (right?), but the trailing ends/echoes of drum beats are gone.

    I'm guessing this is simply due to the high frequency activity stealing energy from the low frequency motion in general, dampening it more.

    When I was wondering if anyone had ever shielded off the jot 2's transformer, that's not because I hear noise in any normal se use-case, but knowing it's there when I mute and crank the volume looking for it, makes me think some extra audible plankton could be gulped without that activity existing there, at some level. That wasn't even criticism of Schiit because I know it makes no sense for them economically nor matters in anyone's use-case.


    I've noticed that the ECBA's 40khz ac tube heater actually cancels out this bit of rfi (I assume) that its tubes can pick up.
     
  13. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    @tatsugiri
    • Filter 4 appears to be minimum phase slow rolloff
    • Filter 1 appears to be linear phase steep rolloff
    They probably just went for the minimum phase as default for it to not cause latency issues, like lip-sync problems when watching videos.

    I've never been a fan of minimum phase filters myself. But they exist for a reason. For gaming, for example.
     
  14. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    hm, I don't get this - all males from China have the same experience in "listening tests" because ?
     
  15. tatsugiri

    tatsugiri Acquaintance

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    Pretty sure I've seen people call the Auralic (as well as topping gear), a "Chinese sound" colloquially -- the same way v-shaped headphones are "Japanese sound" here. The shuguang treasure 6SN7 tubes I've tried also do things to sound more stereotypically hifi than I feel they should, which is what calling something like a Chinese sound signature has always meant to me. ofc I say that quite liking a Chinese DAC after you fix it.
     
  16. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Speaking as a degenerate weeb who is a professed Fostex fanboy: I have never heard a v-shaped tonality ascribed specifically to Japanese manufacturers, though I will be the first to point out that the like of Final and Audio Technica have a very interpretative approach to sonic reproduction (though it's not often purely FR as much as it is FR, reverb, harmonics shaping, and probably a lot of other things that are far and above my capacity to understand).

    AKM has a sound, but so do Cirrus/Wolfson/Burr Brown/name-your-manufacturer. I do see how AKM DACs with the bloomy warm lows and excess of treble shine might approximate how a lot of JPop releases are produced.

    As for there being a "Chinese sound", all that immediately comes to mind is the overreliance on measurements to flatter a product from Topping/SMSL and the like. I don't hear any of the mass of KZ or VE IEMs flooding the market as having a specific voicing or interpretation of sound. HiFiMAN does its own thing, but I don't see anyone calling that anything but "HiFiMAN sound".
     
  17. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I grabbed this from @gixxerwimp 's profile post:
    It offers some interesting insight into how the "Chinese sound" may have come about.
     
  18. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Someone reminded me that this test existed so gave it a shot just now. Had a flub run where I bottomed out at -24dB cuz I had an electric fan running nearby (about a meter from where my head was), so switched it off (aaaaaagh the humidity) and got this result:

    upload_2024-2-2_3-52-31.png

    HD600 out of the Magni Unity (Piety already makes it hard for me to catch differences haha-- not to mention I suck at critical listening) and Modi Multibit 2 in OS mode. Gonna try again in a bit but this was fun.
     

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