Verum: Doing The Right Thing

Sounds like they care more about eyeballs than the other stuff. But their board, their rules.

 

The theory is that tolerance is not to be abused to the point where it erodes the core principles that underpin a tolerant society, i.e., this case where Garu has abused our collective tolerance and is thus beyond tolerance. In my interpretation, at least, it does not mean labeling everyone who disagrees with me as Nazis...

Mind you I'm not American and glhf in November.

 

The only ones? Not true. Here are some attacks carried out by individuals or groups not on the far right.

The Weather Underground Bombings
2017 Congressional Baseball Shooting
Pulse Nightclub Shooting
San Bernardino Shooting
Boston Marathon Bombing
The Unabomber
The 1920 Wall Street Bombing

I won't dispute that the majority of attacks are carried out by far-right terrorists but it is disingenuous to say that all attacks are from the far right.

 

From ASR by you know who:

Yawns, I dunno if want this thread to continue. I feel like we are beating on a dead horse at this point. We know Garuspik is a smuck, lets move on.

 

Another fair point. I got a little riled up seeing someone blame “the left” for threatening political violence (naming anyone they don’t like a Nazi), when the far right are the ones who are using actual violence for political ends.

 

It's a near copy paste of what he said on ASR. Including the part about helping out a sbaf member and never mentioning it.
Except he did say the same thing on ASR like a week ago

 

If he's allowed back, that is an admin/moderator decision, and therefore not up to me. But as far as Verum goes, he'll never get another dollar out of me. He can say it was all a joke and "add some negative perks" but someone who doesn't really feel that way wouldn't be able to think up the shit he said to begin with. I just feel that he was given another shot when either himself or his supposed employee wished cancer on someone, and that chance was squandered in spectacular fashion.

 

I cut out a wall of text. Too angry.

Given everything that's happened and the fact that I believe you don't want to turn SBAF into a safe space for people who tolerate, encourage, or engage in highly improper speech, I say no.

If he wants to help people with orders or repairs or whatever else, he has his own site and a whole other overly-vaunted forum besides.

 

People have been permanently banned from SBAF for far less than this. I don't buy the whole "I was just joking" schtick either. "I'm not a racist/homophobe/antisemite, I just said racist/homophobic/antisemitic things for laughs" is not a particularly good argument, especially since so much of the alt-right is currently funneled through 8chan style memes and jokes. I also greatly dislike the false dichotomy of judging him by his deeds and not words--using those slurs was a deed unto itself and should not be swept away as mere words without any kind of weight or impact. Frankly I see no real apology in that post, just a lot of excuses. If I were an admin I would not let him back based on that message. And even if he were let back, I will not be giving him any business.

 

It seems a pattern of behavior rather than a sick sense of humor. We all agrees, joking or not, that kind of trolling about someone is unacceptable.

If he was imitating Borat was way over everyone's heads. It was certainly a situation that got out of control, but sometimes that is when we can see someone's true colors.

I remember from the first postings of the Verum someone commented on the look of the carbon fiber and Gar snapped back rather rudely more than once, then he blamed it on his bad English.

I think people have heard what he has to say and his website is still up.

 

Don't know if the logistics is doable, but how about a buffer layer - a person that works for him, or even a volunteer, that is the "face" of his project/company and is allowed to represent it here at SBAF? This does not mean that the community here will have to accept Igor's deeds, philosophy, "true colors". There will no doubt be many who decide that their own values will not allow them to do business or interact with Igor's company even with this buffer layer. However, it might be enough to separate the project from the sins of the man, and allow some good going forward.

Just a thought...

 

I still don't trust that it was his admin that said that vile crap to @Gaspasser. That's crossing the line, but what do I know....

 

Why would this be necessary? Doesn't he have his own website and other places he can be contacted?

 

About 20 years ago someone told me about a large international company with big placard on the entrance saying something like "If you can avoid making a joke - please avoid it."

 

There is nothing 'necessary' about an audio forum, who participates, and the like. The question in front of us, unless I am mistaken, is whether to have some representation of Igor's project (is it a company per se? I don't know) on some level (and under what conditions) here at SBAF.

The man is not going to change - It's highly improbable that a moral "conversion experience" is in his future, or that he and most the rest of his Eastern European culture are going to suddenly agree with western progressive values.

So what's left? Is there room for some kind of practical relationship? I am just asking the question. Would some recent woke Yale grad with a title such as "customer relations" who represents the project while Igor is silent in the background be workable? Just a question...

 

I have two general feelings on this matter.

1. I don't necessarily agree that one's verbal conduct on one forum/platform should be basis for banning on another if that person follows proper conduct on that forum/platform. Dude is an idiot for lacking professionalism and using his business avatar to troll with but he should be judged based on his conduct on SBAF.

2. But it should be used as evidence of previous questionable conduct to SBAF members. I don't believe that intern crap so screw him. SBAF should not be supporting his business either by ads or membership.