The Two Channel Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Advice Threads' started by purr1n, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Bitter

    Bitter Acquaintance

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    That's the price for a new one, sorry for lack of clarity. European price is higher mostly because of VAT.
     
  2. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Not surprising about the Tangent amp since What hifi kinda bagged the bigger model for not enough power and rough sounding treble. Tangent link on the whf site indicates medical monitors and computers.

    Where are you located?

    And you may have to bump your budget if you like LOUD and want a decent amp that will work for you for years. Used may be the way to go.
     
  3. Bitter

    Bitter Acquaintance

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    I’m in France, and indeed I’m looking primarily for used gear. It’s not that I like LOUD, but You know having a little head room to mess around is nice. Ican live with a bit of distortion up there that’s going to be like 1% of my use but clipping c’mon I haven’t heard clipping in Years...
     
  4. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Yea headroom is mandatory and clipping sucks. I would call some shops and try to get an overnight loan on some pieces. My short list would include the Rega Elix-R, Cyrus, maybe an older Electrocompaniet integrated or Atoll, Naim, and on the more mainstream side perhaps Marantz, Arcam, and Creek.

    You should be able to find something that would work. How are you liking the EVO 4.2??
     
  5. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I suspect the Creek would do a decent job and it’s supposed to be a very good amp (should be much better than the other one). Will it get “loud enough”, that depends on you. However definitely buy used or with good return policy to minimize risk in case it doesn’t measure up.
     
  6. Bitter

    Bitter Acquaintance

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    I really like my speakers, the sound even convinced my wife who was rather unenthusiastic about the project to begin with.

    There's also decent deals on Atoll, (being a French brand that's expected..) on the used market however reviews seems to indicate smooth top end, that's already the case with my Loudspeaker so that might be too much of a good thing ? :
    Atoll IN80 for 280$ --> this one seems cheap !
    Atoll IN100 for 635$

    I'll wait a bit to have a more precise view of the market, but I keep the option open.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  7. EmDub

    EmDub New

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    Has anyone spent time listening to the Odyssey Cyclops integrated amp? I'm wondering how it compares to the Vidar/Saga and Ragnarok 2. I'm currently using an old Pioneer VSX 1021K with a Modius and KEF Q150 speakers in a "new" home pandemic office (10x10 with cathedral ceilings), and I want to upgrade to a new two channel amp in this price range to start building out a reasonably priced system. Thanks in advance for your input.
     
  8. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    Is there a trick to get bigger scale of music when listening late at night in the 55-65 dB?.

    The ones I know of 1) getting closer to the speakers but I hate nearfield listening. 2) getting a bigger speakers but that not feasible unfortunately :(.

    I suspect a tube preamp or amp will give bigger scale but those are known to suck at lower late night volumes.
     
  9. Metro

    Metro Friend

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  10. haywood

    haywood Friend

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  11. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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  12. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    @nishan99

    no, unfortunately, I do not feel this can be solved by equipment or eq.
     
  13. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    So maybe better off in a different thread or one that I missed, but I need more sound education. What about a speaker/speaker system can make music thwack? I can't really think of a better word for it. Not so much the rumble or thump of bass (I get plenty of that from my subwoofer), nor something related to just loud music. More the percussive strike of live instruments. Also the grunt of the strings on an upright bass.

    If I pursue 2 channel beyond my consumer grade home theater setup, I want thwack and percussiveness, but not be tied to high volumes if possible. My gut tells me from skimming around here that maybe BWC stuff with high efficiency is probably the way to go, but my space could only accommodate 8" or maybe 10" woofers if in a narrow package. My GF has softened her stance on how the speakers could look as long as they take up no more floor space than my current bookshelves on stands. Could a tower based around 6-7" woofers thwack? I will always be budget constrained, so looking at solutions sub $1000. Sorry for the 2nd grade questions.
     
  14. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I think is more do to with sound energy and also our ears working to perceive dynamics. The only way to fix this is more volume or reducing the overall noise in the room. Just grabbing the bass knob will give you more dymaic feel and trick you to overcome this because it is kind of doing the same thing as the fletcher-munson curve, but also pushing the bass over the ambient noise.
     
  15. AdvanTech

    AdvanTech Friend

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    Could you just sacrifice space between the speakers to allow for larger woofers and cabinets? That’s kind of what I did, and for some of the same reasons. I’m sure my rig would enjoy more breathing room but I don’t have it where I currently live.
     
  16. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    I understand what you mean by thwack. I believe it is a combination of dynamic range and frequency response. I do not believe you can boil it down to driver size as the answer. My 12 inch full rangers have a good amount of thwack and they are high efficiency. My older 7 inch monitors which were way less efficient had less of this.

    I believe the thwackiness is related to the frequency response of the speakers in room as well. A lift in the response in the range where stick or hand strike on a percussive device like a drum creates a more audible thwackiness in my experience. A decrease in the response in the 300-400 range also may also contribute to the more pronounced transient strike sound. But you have to be careful as this may mess up other things like vocals.

    But by and large I believe a high dynamic range and high efficiency speaker may be the starting point. eg. some of the Klipsch stuff does this well, but they fall apart in other areas IMHO.

    If you wish to experiment, load an EQ program and play some drum solo tracks while moving a notch filter with about 10 db of boost around to hear how the impact can be affected.
     
  17. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    That's what I would call sound tactility, you feel the sound rather than just hearing it and it's not only applicable for bass but also all other frequencies below ~7khz.

    I think this deluxe attribute of sound is difficult to get without sacrificing everything else. It requires a fast speaker but with pistonic driver behavior (bigger woofers or smaller but stiffer woofers). So you need high sensitivity cone based speakers.

    How much sensitivity and how much pistonic behavior? A: how much you're willing to sacrifice other attributes or how much money are you willing to throw?.

    My towers (8.5k USD) have two 6.3'' dedicated bass woofers with a sensitivity of 91dB with a very good driver stiffness and driving them with 250 WPC SS amp in medium sized room listening 8 feet away and they're still two levels below Focal Elex headphone's tactility (btw I rate Focals headphones tactility 10/10, ZMF Verite is 9).
     
  18. Cryptowolf

    Cryptowolf Repping Chi Town - Friend

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    I am by no means an expert. My experience with 2.1 has been limited to a pair of dual driver Paradigm Phantoms and my current Omega 3XR. The Omega are full range drivers in a tower cabinet. The reason I am sharing at that these diminutive Omega’s, coupled with the Omega Deep Hemp sub, have far more thwack than my other Paradigm Phantoms with 8” drivers.

    I think this may have something to do with the great middle presence and upper mid-bass presence for the Omegas. Upright bass and cello have more texture and micro-detail with the Omega.

    I’m interested in trying Bixby’s idea to see if I can dial in what eq area of my system gives the best thwack tone.
     
  19. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    [​IMG]
    An old picture, but the positions are the same. Unfortunately, this is the space I am looking at. Just out of frame to the left is a wall mounted heater and out of the frame to the right is a wall. I can't pull the speakers more than another inch or two into the room so particularly the left speaker is in the space it can be in. Between the left wall and the edge of the TV is roughly 12 inches. This is a small apartment and is the only configuration that works. For movies and casual music, it works just fine, but for any real listening, I am limited to my headphone rig. Super non-ideal which is why I haven't had a ton of enthusiasm for getting a better 2 channel system.
     
  20. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Hey, how did you get my TV speakers on your setup? Energy RC-10, shhh, people do not need to know about them. And what is on top of them?
     

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