The Two Channel Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Advice Threads' started by purr1n, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Those are some Energy RC-Micros. They are currently facing the ceiling as my Atmos height channel for now until I install some proper ceiling speakers. The RC-10s are seriously enjoyable, especially for the price they were going for at the end of their run. Perfect for movies, as their laid back nature allows me to crank the volume a bit.
     
  2. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Wow, great idea.

    Just a little secret for folks out there, you can still get the RC-10s new for under $200 (orig price $550 iirc). Out of the dozens of speakers I have owned over the past 40+ years, those are the #1 value kings. Not perfect but so good for the money it is crazy.

    As for laid back, perhaps in the context of most of speakers on the market, But if you look at frequency response measurements, I would only call them that if I was like so many folks who have a preference for upward tilting treble or have some hearing loss.. At least they do not get tiring at all.
     
  3. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Yeah, my terminology selection still stinks, but basically, I call them laid back because their treble has never bothered me, even at moderately high volume (for me). But they don't "thwack" hence the inquiries :)
     
  4. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    no, your terminology is fine, I just wanted to make a point that these are rather neutral. As for thwacking, yup, in my opinion they are just not efficient enough.
     
  5. ergopower

    ergopower Friend

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    Musings on thwack

    My reference for thwack is Tickle Toe from Lyle Lovett's It's Not Big It's Large
    I listened to it just now, 88dB avg sound level using an app from Armstrong Flooring (they do acoustic treatments) and it matches up pretty well to a Rat Shack analog sound meter
    This is a big band pretty much off the leash - a lot of energy, and I find I feel quite a lot of it as well as hearing it. Not just the kick drum and the upright bass, but the toms and the big brass
    I haven't done much formal frequency response measuring, but to get that sensory experience, my hypothesis is that there were 2 significant changes that made a big improvement.

    First, I upgraded from an older Hsu subwoofer to a Rythmik L22. After the honeymoon period of having a subwoofer at all, the Hsu was disappointing in that it was hard to tell electric bass from acoustic. The Hsu was ported, the Rythmik is sealed. It's also better located, it's dead center between the L & R speakers. This lets me cross over at 120Hz and I don't notice any sound coming from the sub, to my ears everything just seems to be placed correctly across the stage

    Second, after a room remodel, it was hard to place instruments and voices, things were pretty blurry. So I made 2 large panels from batting and placed them exactly at the 1st reflection point and added some carpeting between the couch and the bookcases in which the TV and audio sit
    Shazam. If the recording had that placement info, it was now easy to hear where performers were located. I also surmise that hearing more of the direct speaker radiation and less reflection also made the attacks and transients stand out more, they were less spread out in time due to the summing with more audible reflections.

    I used to follow a couple threads on AVSForums, and there was a lot of discussion among the movie buffs that the visceral punch comes more from 50 to 100+Hz rather than the lowest bass, but it's still a lot of power required and it's rare that a bookshelf can supply it

    So maybe you could experiment with a different sub and room treatment to see if that's a path that could get you there
     
  6. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    If I have an amp with just one pair of speaker binding posts (like Vidar), it isn’t possible to run my two main speakers PLUS a sub off the same binding posts, right?
     
  7. ergopower

    ergopower Friend

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    It's possible. Some subs accept a speaker-level input. It goes through a crossover and the high pass goes on to your speakers. The low pass is stepped down and drives the sub's amp.
     
  8. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    I do it with my main system amp and an SVS SB-1000 sub, but my amp (Rotel RB-1582 MkII) has two pair of posts, so in theory it could drive my main speakers and 2 others. Right now it drives my 2 speakers and sub.

    I don’t know if it was my imagination, but I thought I noticed a difference when I switched to the speaker-level inputs from the inputs fed by my preamp.
     
  9. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    The extra posts are not extra amp channels, they are simply a second set of binding posts on the same channel. Some people like to bi-wire or whatever, so this lets you do that without mashing extra wires into a single binding post.

    If you're feeding speaker level into an active sub, that's usually ok. If you're feeding a passive sub, be careful because you could potentially overload the amp channel if the parallel impedance of the speaker and sub drops too low. You might potentially alter the sound out of the one side that's also powering the passive sub.
     
  10. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    That makes sense.
    Just to be clear: if I owned a single Vidar (for example) I could connect my passive speakers AND an active sub to the single pair of binding posts?
     
  11. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Provided the effect isn't a result of the low-impedance current starvation that @Armaegis mentions above, you might have just discovered that different amps (your integrated vs the sub's plate) sound different. ;) The internets are replete with mentions that this might be a reason to run your sub high-level from the one amp rather than making the sub active.

    If you have particular sonic impressions of the differences, maybe post them in the General Subwoofer Advice Thread. Always good to compile local data.
    Certainly, if you run a second set of speaker wires to something like this and plug the outputs into the sub's low-level inputs:

    https://www.russound.com/products/a...devices/adp-1-2-speaker-to-line-level-adapter

    I'm doing this myself, but idk if it's viewed as a very good solution - again, sub advice thread might be a good place.
     
  12. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Yes, your sub has high-level inputs so you can plug right in directly to the binding posts on the sub.
     
  13. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    My bad, I didn't spot that your Khozmo pre has multiple outputs - so if you did want to run the sub from line level why the hell would you need to go via an adapter from the power amp (shame I can't give my own post a 'Miss Information' tag :rolleyes:). My integrated amp has no pre-outs and my sub has no speaker-level inputs, so for me the adapter is a necessity.

    Would still be interested to read about the diffs you hear using the speaker-level vs line-level (ie stereo amp/s vs sub amp) inputs though.
     
  14. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    I went ahead and made a rambling post in the subwoofer advice thread that details my "journey." :)
     
  15. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Did you ever get any recs here? I have an atmos in ceiling setup in the basement with the projector but I need something unobtrusive in our living room given the LG CX is already imposing enough. I don't want to look like the inside of a radio shack barfed in my main living space and now I'm thinking of the Sonos Arc.
     
  16. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Hey bud. I don't think I did since I didn't proceed with anything ATM. My 620 sq ft apartment has too much stuff to the point GF and I don't even have a TV area at all with speakers. We decided for any "TV" just use tablets...which isn't too often.
     
  17. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Thanks!

    We're in CO so the houses are quite big compared to what we're used to in the bay area.

    Hilariously, the internet says that at a 13' seating distance, we need a 100+" display for 4k content.

    I'm leaning toward the Sonos Arc or the Klipsch 600 if we're going cheapo.
     
  18. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    As usual...make sure whatever you are doing pass the GF/wifey test. We were planning to do a TV setup before Covid hit, and thus we needed the extra space for my other half's computer desk.

    FL isn't stupid SF Bay prices, but the prices where I am at is going up and you are having 2/2 costing just as much as a Mortgage payment (good luck finding a house...everyone is buying).
     
  19. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I'm the hardest test to pass. The wife is cheap like me but I'd put us at about on par with not wanting our living space to look ugly (which pretty much all speakers look to me).

    Things are blowing up in Boulder but it's still cheaper than the Bay Area so it feels affordable to us.
     
  20. lithium

    lithium Almost "Made"

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    Hi everyone,
    I have recently acquired a used Freya S + Aegir, and hoping to get some advice on speakers to match it with. My DAC is a bifrost 2 and my music tends to be a mix of indie, electronic and 80s music. I prefer some warmth but within reasonable levels, where its still relatively close to neutral and can handle poor recordings.

    I have had my eye on triangle floor standers and wondering if anyone has tried any of them with schiit gear. They are very hard to demo around here, but their sensitivity and review descriptions are very interesting for a potential match. I am open to other suggestions as well.
     

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