Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (and MIL and OG) Impressions + Measurements

I mean do what you want. I think your impressions are still good as the chain is similar between both yggys, but I won't discount the fact that the sound can be colored in a way that might be beneficial for either.

I don't understand this logic that you think a silver cable plated copper xlr cable is going to make the timbre god awful, yet you seem ok putting cables -> transformers -> cables -> switcher(through Elma switchers, copper wiring [i guess if this was silver it would be flawed?], rhodium plated RCA jacks) -> cables -> Liquid Gold......and you believe all that isn't going to have some effect on the sound.

 

Every silver cable I've used, whether it be interconnects (analog or digital) or speaker cable (haven't tried a silver or silver-plated power cable) has resulted in a sound that is brighter, more irritating, less grounded/natural, and has ultimately been removed from my system. This has been the findings over many years, and on multiple sources (Oppo BDP-105D and an Yggdrasil Analog 1 --> Analog 2, in my case). I wholeheartedly support @rhythmdevils in his findings re: timbre of silver cables, though I also agree that running the sound through the complicated chain outlined above could also have an effect on the sound.

 

What do you think about how the LiM or OG/A2 renders complex, layered recordings where there are multiple lines/tracks syncopating at high tempo? I'm thinking choral and orchestral recordings, or layered rock/pop/alt recordings, or even just fast arpeggios on solo piano–do the individual notes present clearly and distinctly yet with coherence or do things blur?

 

In my listening this weekend of the 2541 vs LIM on a 2CH system, the LIM rendered complex material very well. It does not get congested in the manner I have heard from other DACs. It makes these passages exciting destinations rather than something to endure. I easily stay in the music with the LIM rather than being bothered by congestion.

 

On speakers: My head really really likes the Chord Qutest - it presents tones with extra body and its relentless PRaT. My head and heart likes the Denafrips Pontus II because it feels more human, and actually seems to slow down in classical pieces where you'd expect some ritardando (slowing down) to kick in (it's a bit uncanny how this is audible on the Pontus).

And while I would not say Yggdrasil A2/OG is "between" those two, I would say there is an energy to how music is presented (due to the Yggdrasil's robust output stage?) where Qutest is too much PRaT over time and becomes tiring/fatiguing, and where Pontus is too "soft" for music that is emotionally propulsive, Yggdrasil is just right (you knew that was coming).

I can totally see why people like the other DACs. And I look forward to hearing if/how LiM is just right for my heart which in the long run I prefer over my head. And FWIW, I find that even going balanced out to Lokius as I do with OG nicely steps up the difficult-to-describe increase in detail and "sparkle" in the reverb (air) I'm hearing. Full disclosure: I'm using blended copper/silver interconnect. Anyway, just want to encourage people to try this as it has paid big sonic and emotional (heart, again) dividends for me.

 

"Exciting destinations..." I wish I had said that!

 

From my experience this is also a description of how the the RCA and BNC outputs of the PI2AES compare to the AES into the Yggdrasil. RCA and BNC sound calmer and less edgy but smooth over low level detail. Bet if you swap the cables you'll get some of the LiM's missing resolution back.

 

So I just has a listen through your tracks with the 2541.

So the caveats: This comparison was done after 30hrs on the LIM. The 2541 listening was done a couple of days later when I swapped it out in for the LIM in my home system. The comparison was done based on memory and notes.

Setup Workstation>Roon>USB>Yggdrasil LIM/2541>BAL>SPL 2Control>BAL>Rothwell 20db inline pads>7040/8020d. When I had an RME, I measured and tweaked things in here with REW and it's workably flat - no big spikes or combing from my listening position.

Overall, sibilance was not an issue on either DAC for me with your tracks. The LIM brings more texture, bass and space to the equation. The 2541 is smoother, has flatter staging and is more kind to the material you chose. None of the tracks were hard to listen to on either DAC for me, though. I did not pick up digititus on either DAC and both were fun to listen to.

- The David Grey track got a bit shouty at points on the LIM
- the 2541 reveals the slightest bit of hashyness on the brushes and cymbals in the Stacy Kent track.
- The bruce hornsby track sound weirdly great on both dacs. It takes me back to the 80s. The LIM is more revealing of the corners in the production which I really like, the 2541 put it all together in a really cohesive whole.

Overall the LIM is more revealing and dynamic with a greater sense of space. The 2541 is super clean and smooth - not overly so in my mind.

I am going to do a more thorough comparison between the 2541 and the LIM based on my home 2CH system in the coming days.

When I test, I use a lot of Steve Albini stuff: Scout Niblet, Jason Molina, The Breeders.... With these recordings, both the 2541 and the LIM are really great - the staging and the tone are spot on. The LIM goes bigger, and deeper, though. The bass control and texture are really excellent.

I will say that the Genelecs were not a lot of fun to listen to before I treated my room, tweaked positioning and the dip switches on the Genelecs using REW. Perhaps treatments would help in your system?

 

Ok I will do some re-arranging of my rig before posting a full review comparison. I will:

first, keep everything the same and swap AES and BNC cables.

I will then re-arrange my rig and plug the Yggdrasil LiM XLR outputs straight into my Liquid Gold X. I won't be able to A/B the DAC's this way, but I wil try to see if it sounds better/different.

As far as congestion, the LIM sounded more congested to me previously, it's something I actively noticed on my own but forgot to include in my above impressions. Especially during complex passages with a lot of layers and dynamic range. But the LIM has had more warm up time since then and I've been keeping it running 24/7 to burn it in properly before the loaner tour, so this has maybe changed. I will update in my full review.

@purr1n are the RCA outs on the LIM really equal to the XLR outs?

 

Sorry, you mean "...better into your amp than with the XLR..." right? meaning the RCA outs may not sound equal to the XLR outs, but they sound better than the XLR outs going through a cinemag transformer?

Thanks Marv! Your impressions of the LIM have been dead on, and all your various ways of describing the sound extremely helpful for me and everyone else here.

 

Very good news, that would simplify things for me greatly, as I can plug my Liquid Gold into the XLR outputs, and the rest of my amps into one of the RCA outs via my switcher. And give me one more output while all sounding better.

 

Sounds like the perfect upgrade from my Bifrost 2.

Regarding the inputs, is the AES really better than the BNC/rca inputs? I’m trying to decide between buying an iFi Streamer now or waiting another 6 months for a pi2 Mercury, with only the later having an AES output option.

@purr1n You briefly mentioned how the LIM would pair with the Studio B, I was hoping you could expand on that pairing a little. My preferences definitely lean towards the richer side of things.

 

Thanks for the listening notes, Justin - that helps a lot, I appreciate the effort!

I do have a compensation curve in place generated through SonarWorks, which is actually pretty minor so I don't have major inherent problems in the space. I have sprung wooden floors with a 3ft odd cavity beneath and sand below that, symmetrical layout with good dimensions and almost 11ft ceilings. A couch between the monitors, persian carpet on the floor - so things actually sound pretty good and I do enjoy the Gennies a lot. I have a slight dip at 70hz (like -3dB) and a slight peak at 120hz (4dB) at the listening position so nothing too terrible there at all.

What this is telling me is my next stop is some room treatment to treat for higher frequency reflections and slap echo which should bring down some of my sibilance issues. I also get this is a personal thing - for whatever reason my ears just pick it up and it distracts me, but you confirm there ample opportunity to tame it.

Thanks again!

 

Another day with the Yggdrasil LIM, and there may be what for me is a substantial blemish. I've started to notice what actually feels like a bit of an exaggerated boominess or congestion in the bass region -- somewhere between the low and midbass -- primarily in kick drums and the lower reaching aspects of bass guitar. I did most of my listening today during work with the HD800's at a very low level when I noticed what is, for me, atypical listening fatigue setting in. Switched over to my Bifrost Multibit, and that fatigue dissipated after a little while.

Later on, listening to Yggdrasil with my Ori's, which are warmer, it still felt like a very slightly hyped region in that aforementioned midbass/bass area that made it ever-so-subtly diffuse and overbearing. I think it's extremely subtle, like barely perceptible, and if it is it sounds initially like just enjoyable bass presence. For me I hear it as a kind of exaggerated diffuse bass pressure that is accumulating into fatigue. When A/B'ing the Bifrost Multibit, the BFM does seem convey just a touch more of a textural presence in the bass regions that gets relatively lost with the LIM, I'd suppose from that extra teaspoon of warmth. One of the things I really enjoyed with the LIM initially was the bass extension, especially with kick drums... now I'm wondering if its in fact too much of a good thing for me. I also wonder if it's an instance of not-great synergy between the Jot 2, which is pretty impactful through the mids, and the Yggdrasil. I'll do some listening with the Lyr 3 as well to find out.

I can't overstate how subtle this seems to be -- part of me wonders if it's really just the extra detail of the LIM causing the fatigue feeling, but I don't believe it is. I've certainly experienced Grado/Beyerdynamic-grade sibilance/top energy fatigue, (Gungnir MB caused a bit of that for me as well), and this is somehow different.

I'm hoping to find the problem has vanished tomorrow, because if not I'll be $2400 dollars... richer? Wait a minute. But honestly the increased soundstage and sense of clarity over the BFM is really great, so I do hope the effect goes away.

 

I did my home-system 2CH comparison with the 2541 after having moved the LIM from my office. I would have been turned off for all of 10 minutes and then given a 1h warmup from there. I am guessing this likely invalidates my A/B session which was very positive for the LIM in that system (it did not present as congested - but perhaps it was not operating optimally). I am thinking, rather than adding noise to the listening observations here, I should hold off on writing up my notes and redo the A/B again at some point.

 

Your space and setup sound wayyyy more prepped than mine. I took over in our guestroom in an old city house. My Genelecs are on the Gennie wall mounts and have broadband panels behind them and covering about 50ish% of the area on all the walls. The Genelecs went from painful to useful-monitor with the treatments. I would be curious to hear about how the treatments work out for you. I built them myself using a recipe from a studio engineer colleague and they worked out nicely.

I am not sure I would use the LIM as a mixing or QC tool in the studio (I'm in film/animation/post) - it is normal sounding, but it does sound different enough from what people are generally using to listen. The big standout for me is how controlled and textured the bass is. It is so good+, that I think I might make choices that would not translate to real-world listening.