Audio Science Review Review

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Aug 30, 2020.

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  1. BarnBurner

    BarnBurner Acquaintance

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    I didn't know D-K had such controversy around it. I would rename it Trump-Kushner Effect but that's too partisan, and Zuckerberg-Sandberg Effect might come across as antisemitic. Maybe it's better to think of it as the Objectivity Illusion or Subjectivity Blind Spot.
     
  2. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    I think the unexpected turn is a good example of the real problem with ASR. It isn't necessarily expertise, or confidence alone, but rather those things coming together in dogmatism versus pragmatism. It's very easy to say from an absolute dogmatic perspective that Dunning Kruger doesn't exist, or centrifugal force doesn't exist, or that listening tests are subject to bias and SINAD measurements are more consistent.

    Those things might all be true in the strictest sense. Yet being pragmatic..... using Dunning Kruger to describe an overconfident idiot works. Using centrifugal force to describe what someone feels inside a centrifuge works. Listening tests can still separate gear in ways that measurements cannot.

    The nuance, the grey area, the frame of reference, the context. All extremely important, in science and in life. ASR has some things right, but it is the absolute strict adherence to central principles with no flexibility that creates the manufactured drama. A perfect microcosm, unfortunately.
     
  3. winders

    winders boomer

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    No. I was pointing out the he was using the "appeal to authority fallacy"....intelligence in one field is no guarantee of intelligence in another.
     
  4. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I'd put the lower limit at 0.0316%, -70 dB
    20 dB margin is desirable and it would make sense to achieve -90 dB, 0.00316%.
    An amplifier that can achieve -90 dB distortion, excluding 2nd and 3rd harmonic, with minimal feedback will sound (far) superior to a design achieving -120 dB distortion with an excess of 100 dB negative feedback.
     
  5. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    Soooo...anybody excited for the ASR conference?
     
  6. twinkletoes

    twinkletoes New

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    I for one am, I'd love to see blind testing stations given how much they constantly yammer on about it despite never actually going through with it like what happened with @GoldenOne :rolleyes:
     
  7. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    What you'd love to see, and what you would see, at an ASR "conference" are, no doubt, poles apart.

    I guess, what you would see, is Amir. And hear him... droning on and on. I cannot imagine that he would invite any real opposition for real debate.

    If I'm wrong on that, I will increase my respect level for him --- to closer to zero.
     
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  8. Yethal

    Yethal Facebook Friend

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    ngl, I'd pay to see Amir do a double blind test
     
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  9. GoldenOne

    GoldenOne Friend

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  10. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Meanwhile the amir acolytes ignore more telling measurements like thd, imd, and noise in treble.

    Then there is the fawning over muddy Rokits and Focals and trashing ATC.
     
  11. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I would take ATC anytime over the other two.
     
  12. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    You have to have… gasp… an agenda to not.
     
  13. MrMumbly

    MrMumbly New

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    This thread is certainly long enough, covering good and bad aspects of ASR. Found a video from a 2015 Audio Conference presentation by a fellow from Audio Precision. Amir brags about his AP analyzer and test results.

    The AP presentation covered many topics related to the pitfalls of reliance on measurements, including the use of their equipment. Most interesting was discussion and demonstrations related to distortion. The Cliff Notes version - one distortion value measured at one frequency using a sine wave is meaningless. Much additional good information in the presentation.

    At the end when questions taken, guess who is first in line - AMIR. Only he asked nothing about any important technical points of the presentation. Instead, he suggested that Audio Precision could improve their user interface in several areas. Essentially asking them to idiot proof their equipment.

    A quick check of some recent Amir reviews of electronics showed he learned nothing from the Audio Precision presentation. To be fair, Amir is performing accepted industry standard tests. Unfortunately, the AP presentation called those out as woefully inadequate regardless of who performs the tests.
     
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  14. Yethal

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    I think I've seen that. Was that the presentation where Amir complained that the AP does not tell him when he's measuring stuff without anything actually plugged in?
     
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  15. MrMumbly

    MrMumbly New

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    YES. Pretty much says it all about the "expert" qualifications of Amir.
     
  16. vitalii427

    vitalii427 New

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    Haven't been here for a while... but oh boy, reading criticism of Amir from some technically ignorant rando is such a fun!!11 Don't take this personally pls. It's more like generalization)

    Still not one scientifically correct refutation of facts in the whole bs thread)) Thank you all!

    More dislikes pls
     
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  17. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    name one
     
  18. vitalii427

    vitalii427 New

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    I agree on listening tests if they're a properly set up blind tests, such as those harman conducts for example. And SINAD with other measurements should be there only for those who know how properly interpret them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
  19. vitalii427

    vitalii427 New

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    On the contrary, I expected that someone would bring me the harshest fact against Amir or other active ASR members in order to try to start a constructive discussion and once again make sure that nothing constructive would come of it. Hope I'm wrong) This time the toxic guy is me, i'm really sorry. Just a little bit bored and cannot sleep.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
  20. Beefy

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    What makes you think you have earned that sort of courtesy?
     
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