Zahl HM1 Reference Headphones Mixing Amplifier Speculation

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by purr1n, Dec 14, 2022.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    https://zaehl.com/products/hm1-headphones-mixing-amplifier
    I guess this is getting a lot of buzz lately.
    [​IMG]
    What's the buzz?
    What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening?
    What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening?
    What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening?
    What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening?
    What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening?
    What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening?
    What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening?
    What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening?
    Why should you want to know?
    Don't you mind about the future?
    Don't you try to think ahead?
    Save tomorrow for tomorrow
    Think about today instead
    I could give you facts and figures
    Even give you plans and forecasts
    Even tell you where I'm going



    Some interesting tidbits:
    • Class A with switchable negative feedback (servo)
    • Cross fade or compare two different sources with independent volume comp (would be great for blind testing DACs)
    • Stereo width
    • Bass and treble tone controls
     
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  2. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    (...) this acoustic precision weapon has no inherent sound at all. And in my opinion, this is one of the greatest compliments that can be paid to a device for reproducing music (...) outstanding timing and precise spatial imaging (...) both fine- and macro-dynamically capable of playing any (ortho) dynamic headphones on this planet effortlessly (...)

    I'm glad they put ortho in brackets there otherwise I would've worried this can't drive my Susvara. I'm glad that an amp that has no inherent sound at all is only $7,000 now, it used to be $99 10 years ago with the O2. Must be inflation!
     
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  3. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    small correction $7,999
     
  4. sfoclt

    sfoclt Friend

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    I've purchased 4 so I can mix in 8 channels while listening.
     
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  5. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    I'm feeling guilty about my profile post last night which unintentionally stirred the pot.

    Quite frankly I still give it a benefit of doubt. Why? The looks and features rather reminded me of Jan Meier's amps like the Soul. But with all analog implementations (as per Zahl). I don't dislike this style. The early measurements failed to prove it was an epic failure. Early subjectives posted elsewhere by @GoldenOne seem interesting to me tbh, too -- I won't say he's unbiased but he does often bring good insights to the table.

    I know people might be mad at the daunting price and almost gimmickery limited productions. I'm relatively more generous in those aspects -- because (1) they target people earning 10-20 times higher than me; and more importantly (2) to me nowadays it seems that, at any price range, we can buy amps that sound great enough. No must. Hence, how much money to ask (as MFR/vendor) or dump/prioritize (as consumer) is not quite what I'm interested to argue, although I'm no longer interested in buying multi-grand amps for various reasons.
     
  6. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    If the intention is to specifically drive planars I was chatting with a DIY-er friend of mine (who helped me build my Beta22 back then, he's a big fan of Ti Kan and Kevin Gilmore designs for headphone amps) and he is 100% sure that a good power amp + pre amp can be gotten far away under the Zahl HM1's price range and it will get a better result than any headphone amp and offer more flexibility since you can use that combo to power speakers too.
     
  7. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I'm highly suspicious of anything decorated with a signature.
     
  8. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Well, it's a long time since manufacturers found they didn't have to give these away free with every amp! They even taught people to believe amps were better without them.

    So I guess that's, Hmmm, how-many-thousand dollars for the base and treble controls?
     
  9. internethandle

    internethandle Almost "Made"

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    I guess it’s worth mentioning that Torq is also vouching for this thing (with the caveat that he personally rides for tubes more than SS, but seems to indicate this amp has the best technicalities of any amp he’s heard). He no longer works for headphones.com afaik, either.

    I’m still less irked by the price than I am by the unobtanium/manufactured scarcity aspect.
     
  10. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I think you got that wrong: they target people who are 10-20x more insecure about their penis than you.
     
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  11. Armaegis

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    I'm not so bothered by the scarcity thing or price. I'm assuming these are hand built to a degree with no economies of scale (someone please tell me if I'm wrong), and nobody gives Donald North, or Justin from Headamp, or Doug from ECP, or any of the other boutique guys the same kind of grief (or maybe they do, I dunno, I don't pay attention to these things). The Zahl is basically a big honkin' overbuilt amp, lots of fancy innards, and a whole bunch of expensive analog processing, from a guy who's background is actually analog processing.

    Look at Meier (one of the grandfathers of crossfeed), he's got his flagship Soul with similar-ish features for $3000 EUR, but it's all DSP and manufactured in China. If he were to do it analog and build local, it probably wouldn't be far off from the Zahl.
     
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  12. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Joke's on all of us when somebody opens the top plate to find it's an SMSL board with a fancy power supply and gigantic-assed heat sinks.
     
  13. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    @GoldenOne

    Respect to you for paying full price for this thing!

    As a general comment I think Headfi is normalizing the idea that you need $15K to $20K of amp and dac to ''extract'' the maximum performance from a pair of headphones as if you're powering a fusion reactor or something.

    I think it's nonsense (especially as most headphones are not Susvara) but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

    As a friendly audiophile challenge if there is ever a mini meet in the UK I'd love to see a blind test between a Zahl, a Jotunheim and any other competently designed SS amp. Would be fascinating.
     
  14. Polygonhell

    Polygonhell Acquaintance

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    I'm not personally a head-fi fan, but while you certainly don't NEED a $7000 amplifier to make a headphone sound good, isn't the comparison more does the $7000 amplifier provide a better listening experience over the $3000 amplifier over the $500 amplifier over the $100 amplifier.
    Same for DAC's.
    Value is entirely subjective based on what you personally are willing to pay, for that improvement if it exists.
    I do think there are a few headphones that are particularly amp picky that are difficult to judge on some chains, the Utopia can be really harsh on chains it doesn't like, I personally wouldn't rate the Susvara as highly on a lot of source gear etc.
    I also wouldn't spend more than $1000 on an amplifier for an HD600, but to some people there is value in that.
     
  15. GoldenOne

    GoldenOne Friend

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    'Need' is a strong term and I don't think applies.

    Susvara runs ok on a $500 or so topping A90. Does it sound as good a Ferrum OOR or a Holo Bliss? No

    Price is no guarantee of quality, plenty of very expensive stuff that has no right to demand the price tags they do, but at the same time, if you DO want the best you can get, it's not going to be all that cheap.
     
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  16. GoldenOne

    GoldenOne Friend

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    Yeah this is the thing. Value is completely subjective.
    And I'm not at all saying that the HM1 is 10x better than a $700 amp, or 2x better than a $3500 amp. It doesn't work that way.

    The HM1 is in my opinion SLIGHTLY better than the Holo Bliss, and the Holo Bliss is SLIGHTLY better than the Ferrum OOR.
    But you can get a Bliss for half the price of an HM1 (and without the wait time), and an OOR (without HYPSOS) or CFA3 for nearly half the cost of a bliss.
    So where it makes sense to stop on that ladder of performance/$ is entirely upto the person buying the product and it won't be the same for everyone.

    For some people, buying a $50,000 car is an immense cost that they cannot possibly justify. For others they happily will buy a $300,000 car because it's a bit more fun than a $100,000 one.

    I can't afford a ferrari nor would I choose to buy one if someone dropped $300,000 in my lap, doesn't mean a ferrari is always a stupid thing to buy for every person.
     
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  17. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    There is only one way to settle this :)

    1. Choose a well regarded, sufficiently resolving flagship class headphone like the Focal Utopia or Audeze LCD5.

    2.Choose 1 or 2 reasonably priced powerful solid state amps to go toe to toe against the HM1.
    For eg the Schiit Jotunheim and any other $1000 to $2000 candidate of your choice.

    3. Use a commonly used DAC like the RME ADI 2 DAC.

    4. Hide the equipment so you have no clue which amp is plugged in.

    5. We can volume match if you have a precise way to do it or we can just start from zero and you can turn it up to a comfortable listening level each time.

    If the HM1 is clearly superior you should have no problem picking it out consistently.

    If you can I'll eat my words, publicly announce your victory on SBAF and Headfi and buy you lunch. Your reputation as a golden eared reviewer will go through the roof.

    If you can't pick out the HM1, my hunch is correct which is that 99% of headphones are not difficult to drive with a well designed $500 to $2000 headphone amp and you don't need to spend anywhere near $8k.

    I'll bring everything except the HM1 to you and we can have another audiophile of your choice to present to see that everything is done correctly.

    What say you?
     
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  18. GoldenOne

    GoldenOne Friend

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    I blind test stuff regularly. Myself and a friend even built a device to do so unassisted. I use this to keep what I say in reviews grounded.
    No one is immune to placebo, regardless of experience or hearing ability. And whilst there's been plenty of times where I've thought I've heard a difference but then couldn't pick it out blind, there's also plenty of situations where blind testing between amps/dacs has been no issue.

    Current iteration:
    [​IMG]

    How it works:
    https://streamable.com/tuuyzg

    I've got some content on this topic coming in future
     
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  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    There is no such thing as best. At best, "best" is ephemeral, but more typically "best/better" is different. Secondly, amplifier and transducer needs to be thought as one. Best for one transducer is may not be the best for another. Thirdly best for one person may not be best for another.

    I've been at this too long to play the "best" game. It's nonsense.

    FWIW, my custom 45 amp is the best*. The reason is because I got to to be the wizard, to decide how I wanted it to sound, based on numerous iterations of the same topology, with the headphones (and HE drivers that I tended or intend to use), and this after going down the very expensive rabbit holes (all wrong directions). So neener neener neener.

    *Can it be better? Probably if I wanted to pursue more varieties of exotic transformers or toobs, but not worth my time because I use Spotify now. I use Spotify because my daughter uses it and by wonder she has the same tastes that I do, so I ask her to share her playlists with me. Sharing music and listening to music >>>> listening to gear. This is my most used listening to music setup right now: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ai-veloster-n-car-stereo-misadventures.12756/
     
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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2022
  20. Polygonhell

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    Yes this, Synergy becomes MORE important as equipment improves not less.
    It's unfortunate that you really do have to make a decision in the headphone space if you decide you want to optimize for hard to drive Planar's you cut so many great amps out of the selection process.
    It's not really Suvara vs MySphere 3.1, or WA33 vs EC Studio T (or whatever), it's Susvara on a WA33 vs MySphere 3.1 on an EC Studio or DNA Stellaris, because you don't listen to equipment in isolation.

    I'm very much on the Tube side of things, so the HM1 doesn't appeal, but the price wouldn't disuade me, if I were looking, the lack of availability, and as such the difficulty in hearing one would.

    I'll also point out, it's expensive for a SS headphone amp, but it certainly isn't the most expensive I'm aware of, the OJI Special gets that honor, and it's not even close to what you can spend on a SS integrated in the 2 Channel space. As I said it's all how you value something.
     
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