Zahl HM1 Reference Headphones Mixing Amplifier Speculation

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by purr1n, Dec 14, 2022.

  1. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Nice, will be interested in any content comparing the HM1 to ''lesser'' amps. :)
     
  2. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    now this is some serious attempt to create FOMO
    One of the reasons of some dislike towards this product

    upload_2022-12-15_15-52-43.png
     
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  3. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Eh... not really? Feels just like generic product pricing updates to me. Unless they've been posting constant 50% then 60%, then 70% etc announcements to stir the pot of fury.
     
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  4. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    Shouldn't Zahl give some buffer to retailer to inform the potential customer before making a price update. This notification is mere speculation. Had they increased the price and retailer posted an update then I would have taken it as update.
     
  5. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Maybe they did, but they won't know the extent of the price increases because the supply chain is still bonkers mad. My work has me constantly sourcing and pricing equipment and materials for construction, and it is frankly impossible for me to give any estimates for pricing these days. Pre-pandemic I could usually guesstimate how much a certain piece of equipment would go up over time, but lately I might as well use a spinning dartboard.

    I can understand your frustrations, but jumping on it over here is just unnecessarily stirring the pot too. That announcement above is such a generic line that I've seen from virtually every supplier and reseller for the last two years.
     
  6. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    Good point and makes sense. Ya it was an unnecessary post from my side
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Nonsense. f'ing announce increase or don't announce the price increase. Don't announce possible future price increase in the context of our "run is almost sold out." Bullshit detector is going off on this one.

    You called it out, rightfully so.

    ---

    I'm curious how the Zahl HM1 compares to the Tits and Ass HA200:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. netforce

    netforce MOT: Headphones.com

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    For the HM1, headphones.com is the exclusive retailer for it in USA/Canada so full disclosure there. So far my history and backstory of the HM1.

    Its a big chonker of a unit, prior to CanJam SoCal last year we had a prototype unit sent to me before the show and USPS managed to really bungle the shipment, the PSU plug on the unit was damaged in transit and I couldn't plug in the psu cable. Hour or so of hammering away I was able to get unit fixed.

    Giving it a listen on my system at home I was pretty impressed with the unit with the HD 800S and HE-6 between the two Class A and the Class A and Servo mode, and was quite fun/slammy on the latter setting.

    CanJam SoCal 2021 we had the prototype on the table paired with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS and usually the Susvara/LCD-4/Stealth paired with it. It was pretty well received and friends I had pulled over gave me some quite positive impressions. If not slightly hesitant about the price point. Prices weren't set just yet at time and I heard my contacts a possible price of $10k, least that was the estimated price in that stage.

    Fast forward past CanJam, I want to say May at Munich High End 2022 was when interest got the real ball rolling. GoldenSound and the headphones.com content team were fairly impressed with the HM1 as well. I believe it had an Aeon 2 Noire as the demo headphone least in our Munich show coverage video it was a Noire. Soon after late May headphones.com launched our HM1 pre-order page. The HM1 was going to be limited to 15 units in USA/Canada and at a price point of $7,999, not cheap but was $2k less than the original price I was quoting to others at CanJam the previous year. We did have an October/November ETA for our batch which I can touch on.

    Zahl HM1 makes an appearance at CanJam London in July, but did see some folks talking about it again on say Head-fi.

    We get to September, CanJam SoCal 2022. All HM1 pre-orders for 2022 has already sold so this was first CanJam for us where orders now onward was for the 2023 batch. We had announced around that we were getting the HM1 for the show. My work inbox fills up with folks confirming we were going to have it. I remember one case where a guy in the UK who heard it London wanted a chance to hear it again. Wanted to fly out if indeed we had a demo unit.

    Day of the show, I recognize lot of familiar faces from my days working Questyle/TSAV and from CanJam the previous year. Lots heard that hype on the HM1 and wanted to compare it with a few big pricey amps. The Feliks Envy we also had at our table was a real popular big flagship amp for us. The other amps I heard people they said they wanted to compare was the Riviera AIC-10 and the Woo Audio WA23.

    October and the HM1 doesn't arrive just yet, they end up getting completed in November and units have been recently going out now to our original 2022 pre-orders. Hence why the chatter on head-fi has picked up on it

    The Zahl HM1 is without a doubt a pricey unit but at least in my opinion I absolutely adore the sound of it. It is completely understandable to be skeptical of it given the high price. I was skeptical till I listened to it myself and loved it. Considered ordering a unit for myself but man if $8k for an amp also hurts my wallet.
     
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  9. netforce

    netforce MOT: Headphones.com

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    I can speak on that, think the pic was a tad out of context since the price increase next year was brought up a few times on the Head-fi. We had a lot of emails/questions last few months regarding how much stock we stock had left on the 2023 batch so that post was just another bit of info for folks on Head-fi inquiring. Been trying to be as transparent as we can on the Zahl HM1 with the info we been getting on it, which has been tad infrequent.

    We should finally be getting in our demo unit early next week into the Vancouver office. Imagine the content team and those at HQ wants to play with it but can see if in the future if we can send it out for maybe a demo of it for few folks.

    The HA200 does look interesting, seems like a Dave/Bartok competitor at its price. The original Solitaire P they had was... Meh at best. T+A does have a bigger presence in their components than loudspeakers in my experience so HA200 might be cool. We just signed up to be a T+A dealer so I should be able to get a hold of one eventually to try out.
     
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  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Good, send one to trusted SBAF veterans (and it doesn't need to be me - there are at least a dozen who I would trust - this based on shared experience over time). :) That's how we roll. We've always been willing to admit our skepticism was wrong, unwarranted - demonstrated many many times.

    This is what frustrates me: I can tell you how the amps I thought of as the "best" suck in one or two ways. May not use the word suck, but will at least throw up caution flags or remark on possible less than optimal (or optimal - which implies some are less than optimal) pairings with gear.

    Too many FOMO and FOTM red flags.

    I may fly there myself. Have work related reasons to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2022
  11. netforce

    netforce MOT: Headphones.com

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    Sure, will try. Think content team wants our unit around for a little bit but think so long after CJ NYC in Feb, I may have some leeway to possibly send it out. Let me work on my Jedi mind tricks to convince the boss man.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2022
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yes, we all know about supply chain issues, inflation, and energy prices (manufacturing costs) going through the roof in the EU. However, having advised a few in this arena and having worked in M+E / advertising, it's all about being "pro". Personally I've always advocated saying less. As an advertising friend advised me: pretend you are talking to Congress.

    For example, will the Genesis GV60 increase in price next MY (2024) after its location limited intro? Heck do I know and Hyundai sure ain't gonna say. TBH, I just like to not know. But that's just me. Potential customers are going to be pissed either way.

    P. S. Actually, wannabe customers will be angry either way. Real customers won't give a crap.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2022
  13. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    f**k this FOMO.

    We literally make a 3D sensor, a full SDK, and all the computer vision + ML technology that allows for 3D reconstruction and tracking of the human body for $1000. That's after supply chain issues and BOM increases. It's used for many things including cranial surgery navigation. That's right, it's used by robots that operate on your brain and it costs the same as what I'm guessing the price increase will be on this amp.

    I know it's not the same thing but it makes me throw up in my mouth when I think about how ridiculous the pricing and FOMO in this hobby has gotten. I remember when the HD800 came out at $1400 in 2009 and we all thought it was insane to be paying that much for a headphone (the price was adjusted up to $1500 shortly after). That's $1900 in today dollars and seems downright modest compared to flagships today.
     
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  14. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    No we need to use a nice used Lexus worth of amp+DAC to drive our headphones

    Weiss just recently launched a couple of $10k DACs. dCS with their ridiculous $30k tower with “master clock” to maximise PRAT ( )

    Everybody is jumping in on the gravy train.
     
  15. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    We all knew this is coming, head fi going full ORFAS. dCS may kick started it with their stack.

    For me I couldn't care less about those prices, it's a free market and higher end shit is always heading up $$$ in every industry not just head fi.

    I don't need those "masterpieces" to enjoy my music, most of my joy lately is coming from a $100 dongle and $300 chifi IEM. My norime friend is probably enjoying his music even more than I do with his earbuds. We don't need all of this... so I don't understand the hate here.
     
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  16. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I agree that pricing in many sectors is just going the way of the inane cryptobro moon shot (context: I like the spirit of decentralised currencies but there's yet to be any genuinely healthy implementation as far as my non-savvy ass can see; maybe the problem is that I'm using the wrong end to look at it?), but in the same way that people in enthusiast circles e.g. art and unnecessarily powerful GPUs are encouraged to vote with their wallets (cars and houses are just bollixed beyond repair it feels like), I think it's important that people make it known that inasmuch as low-volume proof of concepts are always going to be _respected_, they may not always be received well as a market entity.

    ABX testing has its share of shortcomings, but I do wonder at what the results might imply in terms of how drastic a difference can be found between this and other well-regarded components.
     
  17. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Has anyone bothered to look inside this thing? I'm just having a hard time believing there's (OEM cost) $2500-worth of BOM inside that amp and powersupply, given it's "just" a class-a circuit in a 9"x13"x4" box with sorta-janky switchgear and Neutrik/amphenol ins and outs.
     
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  18. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    My CFA3 had 1500$ worth of BOM "inside". The thing is - for luxury items especially pricing is a marketing tool. I've had people straight up tell me that they like what I'm offering, but they can't take the price seriously. If you're selling the best SS headamp out there, it better be priced as such as well.
     
  19. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    I Hope Fang Bian comes out with the EF20000 SS amp for $20000.

    In 10 years when Jude is shilling a $50k amp plus DAC combo maybe people will wake up ( I doubt it)
     
  20. GanGreinke

    GanGreinke Friend

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    One thing I don’t get about the Weiss DAC502 reviews coming out now is that the version being reviewed had been out since 2018. It’s been out long enough now that there is an updated version, the DAC502-4ch, that has an updated ESS chip and analog stage.

    Now that 10k+ DAC’s are starting to become more “mainstream,” I guess there’s more of a push to review these products.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2022

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