Kennerton ODIN

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by sorrodje, May 29, 2016.

  1. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    I think they look awesome, very classy. Out of my price range though.
     
  2. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    @Drakkard : that's why I recommend the grain of salt for distortion plots. Some other measurements should be useful.

    I borrowed a he500. Will measure and compare as well.
     
  3. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Could very well be a measurement system artifact. Looking at @sorrodje's other measurements, it looks like for lower levels like this measurement (85db), the measurement system limit seems to be around 0.5-1% D2. The 3rd order will not be limited by the measurement system.
    The spikes do correlate with the FR, so it could either simply be varying S/N ratio (which is what it looks like to me) or a headphone problem. A distortion as absolute value (in db) plot should be more telling here. As far as I know, sorrodje uses the fundamental frequency as a reference for his distortion plots, otherwise it might also be partially explained by that (harmonic frequency as reference).

    Could you please remeasure them, but much louder, to improve the S/N ratio? Like 95-100db. This should give us a better idea if the distortion spikes are the headphone or the measurement system's limitations. I'm assuming it's the latter. Not that it's that important.

    HE-500 should serve as a good reference.


    Mystery solved ;)

    :eek:
    With most headphones you don't just get such random FR changes simply due to positioning error. Such big differences could never be explained by measurement inaccuracies. Maybe some people just don't want to see the truth.
     
  4. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Yup. will redo measurements at much Higher levels and see what happens. My main concern with my own rig is not the coupler or the method but more mic calibration. I should buy a reliable tool to check if the 80DB measured is really 80 db. that's why I'm cautious about distorsion.
     
  5. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Great. Should be interesting.
    Yes! This is something that I've been wondering about for a long time: How do other people calibrate their volume levels?

    How I did it (probably very inaccurate):
    1. You need ARTA, otherwise it will be more difficult. Under 'Audio Devices Setup' enter values for the Line In and Line Out sensitivity. The values here are mVpeak and not the specced Vrms, so beware of that! The most important thing however is the microphone sensitivity. First, use the specced sensitivity for your microphone capsule. See that you can get a mic preamp with unity gain, otherwise you will have to find out the gain value. The WM-61A is specced at a sensitivity of -35+/-4dB. This translates into 17.7828 mV/Pa for -35db. -39db translates to only 11.2202 mV/Pa and -31db to 28.1838 mv/Pa. Great. As you can see, this will not be accurate enough. 8db max deviation.
    2. Go on innerfidelity and see how much voltage is required for your headphone to reach 90db SPL at 500Hz. This is where things start to get even more inaccurate, as the different measurement systems will also see different volume levels due to different coupling. My IEM measurements show +5db higher level at 500Hz (or below) for the HD800 and HD600, a frequency that isn't affected by the shape of the ears. The voltage should be in the same ballpark, not exactly the same.
    Other methods (probably better):
    • If you bought an expensive mic, you will very likely have a sheet with the measured sensitivity. If you do, then simply using that figure will probably give the most accurate result.
    • This is probably the easiest: Buy a cheap SPL meter and hope that it is accurate. Its inaccuracies will also depend on the frequency and don't forget that these are often A weighted. 500Hz should probably be fine. Place the SPL meter relatively close to a speaker driver and play a sine tone. Then hold your microphone to exactly the same position and calibrate accordingly.
    • This might be accurate, if done right: Do essentially the same thing that I described under (2), but with a speaker or speaker driver: Look up the published and 3rd party measured sensitivity of a driver (or speaker) that you just bought and measure it outside at 1m distance. Of course you absolutely need the same voltage on your amp. If you're not sure, use 2Vrms and use math to convert the volume level to 2.83Vrms, or similar. This should probably be done outside, as a 1m distance to your speaker inside will change the measurements a lot.
    • Maybe try the same thing as (2), but with an IEM. Should help keep coupler differences to a minimum.
    • Find someone with a calibrated measurement system. Calibrate your mic sensitivity and mic FR against that.
    In the end, measurement system calibration is vital. Especially mic sensitivity and (to a lesser extent) mic frequency response, but proper calibration is probably not so easy if you don't have access to expensive tools.


    I'm curious to see how the others calibrated their volume levels. Maybe I'm very stupid and overlooked the obvious. Let me know.

    I will copy this post to the Measurement Setups - Post Your Rig! thread. That one is probably best suited for these discussions.

    EDIT: Copied post here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  6. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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  7. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    OK more distorsion measurements:

    Odin (100db) - Absolute levels in db.
    ODIN_Disto_100db.png

    HE500 Absolute Level @95db (I can't go 100db , my amp for measurements is not powerful enough and distort)

    HE500_95db_Disto.png


    ODIN Distorstion relative to fundamentals in % ( 100db)
    ODIN_Disto_100db_%.png

    HE500 ( same but 95db)
    HE500_Disto_R_95db.png

    Is there any doubt about the fact the Odin distort more ? Anything I missed ?
     
  8. Ali-Pacha

    Ali-Pacha Friend

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    I think a direct comparison on the same graph for relative distortion on Odin @ 80 db and 100 db could be interesting. Displayed that way, one could think you've raised the volume by 5db to show how bad it looks compared to HE500 :p

    Ali
     
  9. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    Given that the he500 isn't exactly world champion for distortion numbers, I think the graphs already speak for themselves.

    Unless something really wrong is happening at 100dB, that is not at 95dB. But that sounds far fetched.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  10. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Yup. I won't spend more time to measure and measure again. my HE500 measurements are perfectly in line with measurements I trust here or there. I'm done with that,
     
  11. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Yeah, looks like there was no problem wiht the measurements at either 85db or 100db. The Odin really distorts like that. D2, D3 and even D4 are above the noise floor.

    How does it sound compared to the HE500? They seem to have a similar overall tonal balance. You mentioned it sounds much better than it measures and other people also seem to say that it sounds pretty good, so are the measured problems not that important?
     
  12. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Yup. Similar overall balance . that's why I was interested in the comparison. Despites measurements, I still find the Odin sounds significantly better than the HE500 though. Much tighter, much more impactful, more precise. better staging overall. Definitely surprising.
     
  13. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    Most likely a faster membrane, and less ringing.
     
  14. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    frenchbat : The Odin you mean ?
     
  15. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    Yes, that would explain why the Odin sounds better to you.
     
  16. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Yup. that's at least the subjective feeling : faster, cleaner, tighter, faster transients.
     
  17. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    No more impressions huh,
    Wonder how it compares to the he6
     
  18. taisserroots

    taisserroots Friend

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    I'd love to see this driver released separately.
    If it is this competent I think it could lead to a good driver to build around in a more neutral and much lighter package.
     
  19. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    @taisserroots They have one coming out, called the Thror.

    200g lighter, and according to some very enthusiastic Frenchmen who got to hear it much flatter - both less warmth and less subbass rolloff.

    The proof is in the pudding as always, but so far Kennerton seems good at voicing, even if I don't always like how they decide to voice.

    The heAD-Fi thread is the typical massive circlejerk but there is some info buried in the noise.
     
  20. taisserroots

    taisserroots Friend

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    I'm quite interested in it, but at the €3.6k that I see it's within competent speaker territory and something you could afford a decent room for
    It
     

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