High Efficiency Speakers for Flea Watt and low powered amps

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by JoshMorr, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    Trying to put together a more comprehensive thread on speakers that can be used with SET, Tubes, experiments, lower powered solid state (Aegir, First Watt, JL Hood 1969). This thread certainly won't cover everything, but should be a ok starting point for those researching. Lets assume 94db / W @1m and higher. Lets also assume that manufacturers rate these as more efficient than in practise as well. Add you own thoughts for future researchers to help learn from our experiences

    Older SBAF Thread I blindly looked over, lots of good BLH info from Marv / JK47: LINK

    *Single driver wide band in a back loaded horn, possibly with super tweeter and L-pads
    DIY and Madisound kits w/ fostex drivers (link) 8" / 6.5" / 4" kits ~ about 96db/W
    SBAF Thread:
    Pro: cheap and easy to build, efficient, no crossovers - can build flat packs in a weekend, imaging, fine detail
    Con: Time alignment issues with BLH, lacks high end and air - many add supertweeters

    *DIY Efficient horns w/ big woofers
    DIY Soundgroup kits
    Titan or 99 series both 99 db/W

    *Omega Speakers
    Single driver or limited number of drivers
    Maybe something like Super Alnico monitor

    *JBL high efficiency
    Many new and vintage options
    Multiway design for wide frequency response
    Some older models hover around 94 db/W - might want more than 4-8 watts of most SET

    *Tekton Design
    Maybe Perfect SET 15 for BWC
    Lots of models in 95-99 db/W range

    *Zu Audio
    Probably avoid - look up measurements, reviews

    *Blumenstein Orcas
    Avoid - see JK47s thoughts on them (pt1, pt2, pt3)
    Small Fostex Speaker Comparison
    Pro - Small, imaging, fine detail
    Con - limited frequency response (no highs or lows), sound, baby dick drivers

    *Klipsch / Klipsch Heritage
    New and vintage options
    Klipsch Heritage is personal favorite - probably requires more than 4W that some SET provides
    Forte (98db/w), Cornwall (102db/W), Heresy (99db/W) all probably over rated sensitivity
    Lots of used and older model Klipsch Heritage - good modding community / parts availability
    DIY an old Craigslist pair into modern glory w/ Crites upgrades
    Pro - 2 and 3 way design covers wider frequency response
    Con - Horn sound, can be bright, less sensitive than advertised

    * Audio Note / ANK
    AN-E has lots of models and higher efficiency options
    SBAF Thread

    Bottlehead Jager
    94db/W kit
    From Bottlehead site: "A pair of 2.5 way, 94dB sensitive tower speakers with horn loaded planar tweeter and two 8″ wool/paper cone woofers in separate vented chambers. Biamp-able passive crossover boards with separate internal impedance/baffle step compensation network. Cabinet Q is designed for optimal bass response with the damping factor of low/zero global feedback tube amplifiers."

    Lots and lots of other options out there - This doesnt even cover Open Baffles, bi-amps etc. Feel free to add and comment on what you are using
     
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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  2. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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  3. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    My bad - yota just linked me that too - thought I looked carefully, I did not
     
  4. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

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    So this is something I actually have some honest curiosity about, and I was wondering if folks with some irl experience with Zu speakers could chime in. This seems to be one of the most divisive speaker companies and I can't tell if it's because of some kind of cult thing or if their quality across models is grossly inconsistent.

    What I've compiled a priori:
    • I can only find measurements on two models: Essence & Soul Supreme.
      • The Essence was clearly a garbage fire (noaudiophile, stereophile) and seems to have been discontinued. Measurements, while appalling, are of limited use with regards to characterizing the rest of Zu's lineup because none of the others use a ribbon tweeter.
      • Soul Supreme measurement (stereophile) is less of a disaster, but that's a low bar to clear. CSD is miserable, but all the sins committed wrt cabinet resonance are claimed to be inaudible?
      • Honorable mention to some guy on reddit who measured a Druid V, which looks... fine. It looks like a big widebander with a supertweeter, so if you like that kind of thing. But the measurement's smoothed out and I don't know who this is, so take it with a grain of salt.
    • I heard the Dirty Weekend at CAF, but it was setup in a stupid room and sounded like a speaker that was setup in a stupid room. Tells me nothing since all I heard were echoes.
    • Most reviewers seem to worship Zu. This tells me nothing.
      • A lot of them say it's good at rock music, which I think might be code for "it plays loud".
    • Zu owners love Zu. This tells me next to nothing, because of course they do... why else would they own the speakers?
      • But there sure seem to be a lot of Zu owners, so maybe there's no smoke without fire. I've even seen a few on this forum, which is a little different demographically than audiogon or steve hoffman.
    My questions, as someone genuinely interested:
    • When people say "Zu has a particular Zu sound" do they just mean that it's a widebander?
      • If no, what does this even mean?
    • Is there a huge amount of resonance? Does it matter to you & your ears?
    • Measurements of the Dirty Weekend?
    • What made you choose to buy (or not buy) Zu?
     
  5. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I've only heard Zu under show conditions, at this year's CAF, and another one 3 or 4 years ago, so obvious caveats.

    The models I recall hearing were (this year) the Dirty Weekends and prior I believe they were Omens of some sort. After this sentence, I'm just kinda bullshitting, but not really.

    They don't do finesse. They don't do planktons (I mean, highest frequency response is there, but it sounds tizzy). They don't do tone (mostly, they're too chesty). They don't do sub-bass. They do do punch. They do do snap and PRAT (sort of). They're "fun" kinda like Dave the potbellied 44 year-old still secretly yearning for his Natty Lite soaked frat days. (IT'LL BE A RAGER!!!). But now-a-days, Dave's at the Memorial Day Grill Out he's hosting in his too-small backyard. Dave's dragging Brett from marketing down to the basement to show him how great Pearl Jam Ten sounds through the flame-painted Zu's Dave's wife won't let him keep in the living room. Dave still (defiantly) has a soul patch. He's still kinda pissed management told him he shouldn't talk about his 2 tattoos with the clients.

    Zu is like a modern un-sarcastic high-five from Dave.

    Has anyone here listened to modern Cerwin Vega stuff?
     
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  6. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    New to Me Consonance Opera Solo MKII, posting info from Opera's site, photos from my room. They are really good, I am listening to classical again, arias I love as well as jazz, electronic and americana rock, its great fun.
    IMG-0367.jpg
    SOLO is the point acoustic source coaxial loudspeaker. A major feature is very stronger expressive force of the stage in voice and single instruments playing.

    The size of SOLO is similar to BBS 5/9 , 12-inch diameter big bookshelf loudspeaker.

    The cabinet is made of multi-layer solid wood, solide wood veneer surround and multi-plane triangle design in the interior to aim at reduce the parallel surface to suppress the standing wave in the box. In addition this structures makes the box stronger and reduce the resonance moderately for the damping of speaker. This speaker combines the elements of the Classical Style , simple and elegant, moderate size, it is very suitable for home furnishings.

    The unit uses the top-level loudspeaker diaphragm and voice coil components from UK. The tweeter is the real compression driver. The design is excellent and frequency response is smooth, with excellent damping characteristics and the ability of restoring the details.
    Specification:

    Frequency range
    45Hz~20kHz
    Nominal impedance

    Sensitivity
    96dB
    Recommend Power
    10W~400W
    Drive units
    12" coaxial speaker
    Cabinet
    MDF plate, normal wood piano surface
    Speaker dimensions 570*370*300mm (H*W*D)
    Stand dimensions 470*370*300mm (H*W*D)
    Speaker net weight 22kg*2
     
  7. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    Question, the new speakers make a farting sound every once in a while? Have never had this before, is it a bad cap or what. Has anyone had this and can point to what is causing it.
    best,
    Josh
     
  8. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    @Josh Schor does the noise happen at higher volume and/or with deep bass notes? The first thing that came to mind was port noise. Its been a few decades but I've heard other speakers do that via port noise or sometimes the voice coil was scraping within the gap due to being blown or over excursion.
     
  9. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    I will pay attention to when it happens it is only once in a while. It sounds electrical. I do not play music loud at all.
    thanks
     
  10. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I'd also try a sine sweep and see if maybe it's a particular frequency that's making something rattle (either in the speaker cabinet, or something else in the room).
     
  11. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    I wonder if the Studio B is at times being pushed beyond its capabilities, could that be causing a farting sound. Has not happened today. When I play recordings that are recorded very low and I crank the amp up 3/4's I think is when its happing.
     
  12. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    one of the best sounding speakers I have had, I think my wife is hinting there to big for the small space, shit I may have to sell them.
     
  13. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Didn’t you mention previously that you were getting some Omega speakers? Did you ever end up getting them?
     
  14. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    These came up at a great price so I went for it
     
  15. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    I am changing out the Jupiter caps I put into he Studio B, being Bees wax they can melt at a low temp. Replacing with Dueland oil impregnated caps, will see if it solves the problem, its not the speakers. I find with these speakers I am not using my headphones, they are so good with the Studio B.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm almost positive it's the Jupiter caps crapping out.

    That's a nice design. A big woofer with coaxial HF driver. Something like this will be my next project.
     
  17. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    Cannot find out where the driver is sourced from in England it looks like a B&C and I have not taken the speakers ourt of the cabinet. I am so happy to have a good speaker again, the Studio B with the WE 300b is beautiful with it.
    Will let you know when i put the caps in what its like sound wise and if it stops the blatting/farting noise
     
  18. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    I just got some used Skylan 4 post stands, filled them with barbecue pencil shaped wood, (Noel who makes the stands suggested it) and wow they are great. Mids. are more pronounced with greater clarity, lyrics and background instrumentation comes through clearly, the Hights have lost any harshness without losing energy and the bass is tight quick and clearly delineated the slight woolliness is gone and the note is clear. I did not think that they would improve the sound that much, I am very happy I found them. I had thought they would be different not better and I was wrong.
     
  19. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    Just arrived today Omega Super Alnico Monitors in Walnut, Furutech binding posts.
    IMG-0535.jpg IMG-0536.jpg
     
  20. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    Nice! That walnut veneer will look much better in about 18 months time. Looking forward to sound impressions, I've toyed with swapping out my 3i's for the compact alnicos (with the EC Af)
     

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