Upgrade path from Fidelio X2 / HD600

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by AsSiMilaTeD, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. AsSiMilaTeD

    AsSiMilaTeD New

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    The short version:
    What I'm looking for is a headphone around $1000 or less that combines the natural-ish sound of the Sennheiser HD600 and the bass, open soundstage, and general "fun" sound of the Philips Fidelio X2.

    The full version:
    I don't see much mention of these headphones here on SBAF so may not get much response, but figured I'd ask anyway. I've been using the Fidelio X2 for a couple years now and am on the hunt for an upgrade for around $1000 or less. Ultimately what I think I'm really after is a combination of the HD600 and X2.

    I have roughly 4300 albums so my musical tastes are all over the place, but the things I listen to the most are prog rock, movie scores, electronic music, and jazz. If it helps, here are some examples of artists I always have with me...

    Dream Theater
    Opeth
    Hans Zimmer
    Dave Matthews
    Pink Floyd
    Porcupine Tree
    Infected Mushroom
    Eva Cassady
    Frank Sinatra
    Bear McCreary
    Danny Elfman
    Tchaikowski

    The thing about almost all of the music I listen to is that it tends to require a good spacious soundstage, even the prog rock tends to have epic pieces that need that expansiveness.

    The X2 were an upgrade from the X1, so I've been with the Fidelio "house" sound for a few years now. I've also owned the HD6000, HE-500, DT880, and then several pair of closed cans. To give some perspective, I prefer the X2 over all of those models. The DT880 had an awesome expansive sound that I loved, but ultimately sounded a bit thin and harsh at times. The HD-500 had this strange "in a cave" sound with the midrange and some vocals. I spent the longest time with the HD600 and really like their organic and natural sound, especially out of the Valhalla, but I wanted something with a larger soundstage.

    So the X2 has strong bass (but not the most controlled bass), a nice expansive soundstage (not HD800 big obviously) and an overall sound signature that agrees with me. The problem is that the treble, while being at a tolerable level for me, is just artificial sounding. I grew up in and around music and I know what a piano sounds like, and the X2 simply doesn't get it right. The HD600 does a much better job in this regard, instruments sound much more natural vs the other headphones I've owned.

    What I'd like is the timbre of the HD600 and the everything-else of the X2.

    I had the chance to hear the Focal Elear at RMAF last year and was really impressed, but we were inside a tent this year and the environment was less than ideal for listening. Based on Tyl's review and other reviews online I'd decided to order the Elear...and then I found you guys. Looking at the impressions thread here has at least temporarily scared me off and so now I'm resuming the search. I live in the middle of nowhere (aka Colorado) so don't really have great options for auditions, nor do I have the cash to buy $10K in headphones and ditch the ones I don't like.

    So there you have it, any advice is appreciated.
     
  2. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    You mentioned a Valhalla, what's your current source gear in terms of amp and DAC? Important consideration for a good recommendation. Have you looked at the ZMF Atticus? Top end of your budget but it seems to fit what you're after.

    I would not enjoy the Elear at all with rock music personally due to the recessed presence region, but then again I also feel this way about the X2.
     
  3. AsSiMilaTeD

    AsSiMilaTeD New

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    I don't have any good gear at the moment to speak of, currently I'm using a Dragonfly Red. I've always been a headphone/speaker first kind of guy, once I find the headphone I'm after I'll figure out the gear.

    I will check out the ZMF, thanks for that recommendation
     
  4. barelyincollege

    barelyincollege Nice Pit Bull

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    I wouldn't recommend the Elear to someone whose top priority is an expansive soundstage.

    Have you considered an HD800 with SDR mod? It should be much easier than the Atticus to audition if you're risk-averse.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  5. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    Check the Beyerdynamic DT-1990.
    It comes with two types of pads so you can tweak the sound a bit to your liking.
    You should expect a relatively fun sound signature with higher quality treble than the Fidelios.
     
  6. AsSiMilaTeD

    AsSiMilaTeD New

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    I don't know much about the mods, but I tend to like a somewhat elevated bass and have concerns about the HD800 providing that. I'm not talking V-Moda levels of bass, but I do like bass that's on the plus side of neutral.
     
  7. AsSiMilaTeD

    AsSiMilaTeD New

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    That DT1990 actually looks interesting, I'll do some reading up on it.
     
  8. AsSiMilaTeD

    AsSiMilaTeD New

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    I decided to order the DT 1990, beyers don't seem to be popular on here so there's not much info but if I don't like the sound I can swap them in for something else.
     
  9. Case

    Case Anxious Head (Formerly Wilson)

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  10. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    I've long searched for the same thing. The short answer to the best of my knowledge is that you simply cannot. Atleast without resorting to using EQ, which I now happily do with everything. The closest I've gotten to this ideal without EQ is a HD650 with the rear damping mod, but with the front and back foam completely removed. Plus a good amp. I have the DF Red and can say that it cannot drive the HD650 very well, for example with a decent amp you will gain better soundstage width, image precision, bass impact, better separation of volume gradations, and separation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  11. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    HD 6xx need a good chain. Bifrost 4490 + Valhalla 2 w/6CG7. More open, more fun. Plus you're set up to take advantage of the Bifrost MB upgrade that is supposedly in the works.

    Although I have to say that your OP is rather contradictory - you want the neutral sound of the HD 600 and the "fun" sound of the X2. That almost sounds impossible from one headphone.
     
  12. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    I'm interpreting from his post that he likes the highs of the 600, the bass of the X2 and he wants a big soundstage.
     
  13. Case

    Case Anxious Head (Formerly Wilson)

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    He wants the Big D
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    HD800 SBAF and French modded.
     
  15. AsSiMilaTeD

    AsSiMilaTeD New

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    Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I didn't mean to indicate that I wasn't investing in good gear upstream. What I said is I'd like to get the headphone figured out first, then find gear that's suited to match. I've always found that while equipment upstream makes a big difference the largest influence on sound comes from the transducer so I tend to start there and work backwards. I set the $1000 price limit on headphones knowing that I'll probably need to match that investment in a good amp and DAC.

    I don't have the HD600 any more, although they'd be cheap enough to acquire again, but for the years I had them I ran them from decent to good gear and could just never get them to sound as open as I wanted. There is lots of big orchestra in my regular rotation and while the Senns portray the instruments themselves very well, I don't get the sense of space that I'm looking for.


    Much of the above reply apples here as well, but also wanted to address the neutral comment. It may not necessarily be "neutral" sound that I'm after, I would say natural is the better description. There are plenty of headphones that sound neutral but still not natural, in that they don't get the timbre of the instruments right. I prefer a little more of a fun sound signature, sort of a U shape but not the extreme V that many headphones have. But I want that basic "fun" sound signature in a headphone where instruments still sound like real instruments and not digital representations of themselves.
     
  16. AsSiMilaTeD

    AsSiMilaTeD New

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    After doing some more reading I think the DT 1990 may not be the headphone I'm looking for, but I saw a deal and jumped on it, it won't cost me anything if I decide to send them back.
     
  17. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Open backed, neutral-ish with some extra bass thump? A decent choice is an Audeze LCD2 which have been showing up on the used market <$500 these days. It's not a perfect fit, but good bang for the buck used.
     
  18. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    Wow, how the times change. Weren't they ~$2000?

    OP's question is a good one, if perhaps unanswerable.
     
  19. AsSiMilaTeD

    AsSiMilaTeD New

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    I was worried when I started this thread that may be the case, possible that what I want simply doesn't not exist or is not even possible. It's frustrating because what I'm after is so doable even with inexpensive speakers...

    I'll look in to the LCD2, at that price it couldn't hurt to try it out.
     
  20. AsSiMilaTeD

    AsSiMilaTeD New

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    By the way, I noticed the original post was tagged with a dislike, are threads such as this not appropriate here or did I breach etiquette in making my first post a request for advice?
     

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