ZMF EIKON & ZMF ATTICUS

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by gbeast, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    I attached a photo above from Zach that proves that the varnished cherry will indeed darken over time. I would say the shift in color after two years is pretty dramatic actually. You can speed it up by placing them in direct sunlight as well.

    Aging cherry: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/adding_age_to_cherry
     
  2. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Oh, right... I wasn't listening properly :oops:. Fair enough and sorry!

    In fact, am I wrong about the actually finish? Is it varnish, or some sort of oil/wax which would probably feel a lot nicer?
     
  3. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    I don't know much about the finish. I know Zach offers a hand wiped varnish or a spray on lacquer. I think most people opt for the varnish because it makes the wood darker with more pronounced grain straight out of the box. There are a few other customization options. The padauk wood's grain is very consistent but cherry can look pretty distinct from copy to copy so you can request either the straight grain cherry or the wavy rift cherry. You can also request black or silver aluminum gimbals for either wood. So far, I think I'm the only person who has asked for wavy rift cherry with silver aluminum parts.
     
  4. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Hi Guys,

    I've been super busy with a new job the last week but I've had the EU loaner Eikon for a week now and managed to get some listening done.

    You all know by now that I'm not the best at detailed reviews so I'll keep it very short.

    Chain: TIDAL Hifi>Modi MB>Mojo 2 Stock Tubes>Eikon.

    These are a relaxed bassy headphone. They provide a very pleasant listening experience with no irritating qualities.

    Compared to my HD650 they do sound a bit darker and less dynamic on most music.

    They beat the 650 in terms of low bass but the combination of the $1400 price, bulkiness and weight make them an unattractive value proposition for me as I don't need to use a closed can.

    They may be a top contender if you need a closed can or are looking for something like the dynamic equivalent of the Audeze house sound without the crap ergonomics and QC issues. If the 650 bass is not acceptable to you these are worth an audition as the Elear treble spikes (that I've read about) may offend a 650 fan.

    @pedalhead Sending these to you this Saturday, enjoy!
     
  5. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    @zach915m saw my comment here and shared a how to video:

     
  6. thekorsen

    thekorsen Acquaintance

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    Lurker rando here! I read some posts further back mentioning that the Eikon performs better (smoother treble, better bass) on high output impedance (presumably tube) amps, and that the Vali 2 has some issues with highs similar to that of other low impedance amps on the Eikons. As an owner of a Vali 2 (using a EH-6922) it got me thinking, would it be possible to artificially raise the output impedance of a Vali to produce similar effects (maybe with an adapter that adds resistance or some light soldering)? I'll know how big of an issue this is when I get my Eikons on Saturday and could try to EQ out the peaks in the treble, just seemed like a hardware solution would be worth a look first.
     
  7. Vent

    Vent Friend

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    I had the exact opposite difficulty. My head is large and I found the clamping uncomfortable even at the maximum extension. After wearing them a couple of hours at the computer I felt like I had a strange headache at the top of my head, which went away after I took of the headphones. It's the first time I've had that experience.

    Also, I found the opening of the pads a bit too narrow from front to back. The back of my glasses would press against the back part of the pad, creating another point of discomfort.

    Having had a chance to sample both the Atticus and the Eikon, thanks to the loaner program and the generosity of a fellow member here, respectively, I have to say that both were impressive in their own way but that ultimately I couldn't see myself buying either one of them. Some of that is the physical discomfort that I experienced. And while I enjoyed certain aspects of both of these headphones, I didn't find the overall tonality as pleasing as the modded HD650 and the Slants that I am fairly familiar with at this point. I'm not sure what that says about my tastes. Probably nothing good.

    I will say that with the Eikon I was especially taken aback by their ability to represent the piano. I'm not sure if it's something at that frequency range or just the beautiful decay, but anything with a piano was basically a wow moment for me. It had me wishing that everything else came together in a way that I enjoyed more, and gave me a window into why so many people are so thrilled with these.
     
  8. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Well so far the Atticus is impressing me. I really enjoy the bass presentation, and what its doing with female vocals. I'm hearing what some people are calling "romantic". Uh oh dare I say "super HD650".....lol

    Oh and the staging is impressing me too, I'm enjoying closing my eyes and imagining where the instruments are compared to me...
     
  9. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    Cherry darkens in reaction to both oxygen and light. Even with the film finish the light is still gonna get you, nothing you can do about it except tone or stain the wood before hand to hide some of it. I like the natural look myself.

    Agreed people probably wont keep these around like furniture but I say embrace the color changes, consider it customization.
     
  10. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Well for better or worse, the "relaxed bassy" sound your hearing is attributed to your amp, I have both the Eikon an the Atticus, and with the .1R on my Ember II I get a bigger loose'r bass and darker flatter or less dynamic sound... so when you'r able to I hope you can gear the Eikon matched right! But my first week with them, left me with that impression. Then playing around on my Ember II I found MAJOR improvements to the sound in terms of control and dynamics by having that higher R output... which lead me to buying 3-4 more tubes to try and improve the sound further... thankfully I've landed on what I HOPE will be my final tube for this amp. But @Rthomas it's great that your able to listen to these on a more entry level system! Certainly there are others with a set up like yours, and chances are the Eikon won't be too impressive for them as was your experience, so for them a $1400 headphone might not be worthwhile

    I agree, I've been listening to Igor Levit: Bach, Beethoven, Rzewski #01 Goldberg Variations, BWV 988 - Aria with 30 Variations this morning, and it's beautiful! I'm impressed that the Eikon manages to present each note just as tactile as my HE 4!!! But with the added bonus of isolation and a sweeter tone,
     
  11. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Well the loaner is back in its box for shipping out later today and I'm going to miss her...

    Just some thoughts:

    - When the headphones showed up, I picked up the box and got scared. It was flippin' heavy. Then I realized it was the awesome case that was doing most of that. The weight of this padauk headphone was very manageable for me. Five hours of straight listening left me with zero discomfort.

    - @Vent 's head must be giagantic...lol ...and coming from a guy with a hat size of 8.
    Kinda kidding, but still. I got these from Vent, and these things were flopping on my head until Zach shared that video on bending to adjust. I say plan on fiddling with these if you buy a pair, don't assume an awesome fit the first time you try them. Get these correct, then never share them ever. (I'd love a crack at making these fit Vent better, there's room for fit improvement)

    - Sony needs to buy a pair of these headphones to learn how to present bass correctly. How did Zach get mid bass so right, and Sony so wrong. And the Atticus is less then half the price of the Z1R. Now to be fair, I've always been a fan of Zach tuning philosophy, and for me everything lives where I want the music to be. I swear he's straight out of 70's hi-fi where bass glows and treble rolls, and I love it. But all of Zach's T50RP endeavors have felt a bit lacking (haven't heard the Omni/Ori), and now I'm sure he just hit a wall with the driver he was stuck working with.

    - I have never heard a headphone that presented female vocals and male vocals equally as well as these (granted I never listen to "elite" headphones, because I can't afford them) Nora Jones, Esperanza Spalding, Adele, Pink, Barenaked Ladies, Maroon 5, Nate Rateliff, and the gaggle of singers in Fleetwood Mac sounded strong and forward without sounding shouty (well maybe Pink, but come on its Pink we're talking about). Try the Atticus with live music, you will not be disappointed. Try studio sessions work where the band plays together, you will not be disappointed.

    - Power. My Liquid Carbon was barely able to push these in single ended, I needed to throw balanced power at them so I'd need a balanced cable to daily drive these. (or better yet a good tube amp) If you question your amplification, then you might not be able to get all the love out of these.

    - The flat cable included deserves a thumbs up too. It isn't stiff and didn't want to tangle or loop on itself. Good call there @zach915m

    I might take a crack at buying this when the tour ends, but then again I'm going to hear the Eikon on loaner too...
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  12. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Indeed! I don't enjoy a mid bass hump as much any more, but for those that do. I agree the Atticus does it well! I felt it compared really nicely to the Focal Elear, which also had a mid bass hump, but what the atticus did better than it's open back competitor was the mids! A more balanced presentation in the mid range with the same sweetness alongside an excellent upper midrange presence and hardness highs. The only thing the Elear does better is distortion at higher volumes and a cleaner faster bass, and honestly I prefer the Atticus strongly over the Elear, a better value and more balanced sound. But the Atticus is picky with amps and will requires a little experimentation and work to get the most out of it
     
  13. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    I think @zach915m has made it perfectly clear. Go tubes, specifically an OTL (or the elite stuff too)

    Hey, the Atticus was a great experience out of my half powered Liquid Carbon. So I suspect its less amp picky then you're making it out to be @Mshenay

    I will now dream of the ZDS and Atticus frolicking together, living happily ever after...
     
  14. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    That's very possible! I just might be picky with how I expected it too sound lol, it was HORRID out of my Solid State, but I run a Project Ember II Hybrid Tube and I am very happy with how it sounds out of that ^^ Spent more cash on trying different tubes for that amp than what the amp COST ME, just to get the level of transparency I wanted/needed out the amplifier. So everything I've said has been a result of finding the perfect tube for my needs, I really wanted to make sure I heard this out of the best system I could put together! An as a result I'm really enjoying both sets, I'm curious to see what you think of the Eikon as well
     
  15. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    So more impression from my listening over the days

    I'm not as impressed withit ... switching from the Atticus to the TH X00... it's a similar sound signature, with the TH X00 adding a touch more sub bass umph... but what the TH X00 lacks compare to the atticus is clarity. Drums and bass guitar riffs... are a bit softer... there's more umph but a lack of power and clarity... and lastly the mids! There's a awesome sweetness in the mid range on the Atticus, that you lose with the TH X00... but the two are simmilar. Still If you have the budget for it, the Atticus is to my ears a very straight forward upgrade to the TH X00. I should mention though I have Alpha Pads on my TH X00 with a recable, though I do like the brighter crisper highs on the TH X00... still they are no substitute for the mix of both clarity and beautiful decay present in Atticus

    I swapped over to jazz from the Th X00 to the Atticus, the first thing I noticed was how the sound stage really opened up! Not in terms of width but in definition. The sound-stage is more cohesive as a whole, some of the low notes on the cello would be strong in one channel and absent in the other, where as with the Atticus it was stronger in one but still present in the other... the TH X00 would present the Trumpet STRONG in one channel and absent from the other, where as the Atticus gives me a stronger in one and a touch of echo in both the sound isn't limited to RIGHT channel, but rather it originates and spreads out from the right... this improvement in overall clarity and resolve is obvious!

    Also some one asked for how the Eikon compares to the W1000X... both have a very beautiful natural sound to them. Though the W1000X after mods, sometimes has more decay than the Eikon, other times has less. An while the W1000X does a better job with Micro Details, the Eikons Sound stage is far more resolving, far more realistic. That's the difference, the W1000X fault's give it a sort of.. fake sound in comparison to the Eikon. It's sound stage is too strongly defined as left/center/right, it often has too much presence, and throws Micro details in your face. Where as the Eikon offers same the beautiful decay, with much faster transients. Meaning, where as the W1000x shifts quickly from quite to loud, it's lacking in both sustain and the release of a note. The W1000X aggressive sound doesn't allow for you to appreciate the trailing edge of a note, it shifts quick from high to low energy and then just falls off. Where as the Eikon has the air within it's sound stage and the resolve to let you follow that release... to let you appreciate shifts in sustain, little details... transients! In some tracks the Eikon isn't as apparently DYNAMIC, having a more balanced overall sound signature your really able to follow the instruments both as a whole and individually, I might not notice the big dynamic shift in the trumpets because I'm too engaged by beautifully natural dynamics and transients in the piano... where as the W1000X more or less forces your focus Having a Hybrid Tube does help to mellow it out a lot, but it still can't compare to the combined naturalness and speed of the Eikon... but for a $300 headphone it puts up a good fight!
     
  16. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Going to just start a new post... with the most interesting of my edited and spell checked Comparative notes, I compile these rather massive spread sheets whenever I do reviews. I used to use a word document...but the quick notes in gDocs are easier, especially if I'm doing a comparison.

    [​IMG]

    What I found was that for EDM, my modded W1000X had more texture in both the bass and the mid range, than either of the ZMF Phones... which is what I like about it. It's a VERY surreal sounding headphone, it's timbre is quite natural with more natural recordings. But the sound stage can be super narrow/deep and can often well give a surreal imaging to music. For the other 9 songs I've listened to the Eikon has prove to have better and more natural resolve than the W1000X... but this would be the first time the W1KX takes the edge... ofc though it lacks sub bass all together... kinda rolls off at like 40hrz... but a nod to W1KX, and whats neat is the last buddy of mine who heard both my W1000X and my LA D5k actually liked the W1KX over the LA D5k, I accused him of being deaf [which he actually is partially in one ear] he commented back then on how... tactile and textures the W1KX is. Which with EDM or... I dunno Flying Lotus is really cool!

    Still though, the Eikon resolved some channel imbalances better, like Echo's swtiching sides, or the high hats timing being a little mismatched between the two channels. Not errors in the mix, but little stuff to add to it. More Natural and still very resolved is what I'm really loving about the Eikon! Doesn't cram micro detail down your throat, neither does it present micro detail in a way that over shadows precision in imaging. Because a really precise image or sound stage is what impresses me the most!
     
  17. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    Quick comparison between loaner headphones, namely Atticus and the Monoprice M1060, and my modded HD650s:

    Setup is optical -> Gungnir Multibit -> Mjolnir 2 w/ Miniwatts -> Headphones

    HD650M (M = rear spider removed, dynamat on magnet but no foam over hole, no coin mod) - most intimate; least separation, most "congested" sounding; best male vocal presentation and meatiness, but the vocals are more forward; probably best for EDM and digitally produced music of the three

    M1060V (V = vegan pads, paper towel mod; almost unlistenable without these mods) - most relaxing, airy, noticably left-right extremity to soundstage; thinnest sound of the three, least accurate sounding transients, perhaps most neutral; my friend described them as "the coziest, sleepiest". I compared these to the 650 here.

    Atticus (paduak, stock) - most accurate soundstage, sounds most like live music; bass is cleanest on Atticus, high keys on piano were clearer, more air to cymbals and high frequencies; some female vocal enunciation clearer than 650; vocals more balanced in layering compared to 650. Largest downside is a loss of intimacy or spooky goosebumps presence that I'm used to on 650, probably due to driver distance from ear. I will miss the bass though; the phrase that comes to mind is "sick nasty"

    Note: in general, I don't really like the presentation from deep pads like on the Atticus or Alpha Dogs. The Atticus sounds better to me if I hold them a little closer to my ears. I would tighten the clamp and try them like that but these are a loaner. The more time I spend with them the more they're screaming "clamp me!" I don't like the Atticus with the WE396A tubes, by the way... too bloomy, too unfocused. '75 Reflektors are better fit. Slightly prefer them to the Miniwatts here.

    Ergonomics: M1060 framing is annoying as hell; swivels any which way. Atticus is heavy, makes my neck slightly sore (almost a dealbreaker), and would benefit from more clamp. Stock pads for both are bad for sweaty people.

    Summary:
    650 -> best for EDM, digitally produced music; intimate vocals
    M1060 -> most neutral, but lacking in musicality in comparison; sleepiest
    Atticus -> best for live recordings; spectrum well balanced from top to bottom, very pleasant for jazz; awesome bass
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  18. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    I have committed apostasy and looked inside the Eikon to see there is a organization of materials totalling eight layers observable.

    To a person who mods, this is like an engineer looking at a schematic to see how well designed and complex the internal layout/design is.
    This is an advanced material layout which reveals an exceptionally well done headphone (internally).

    The driver magnet size has no peer with exception of Utopia and is shielded on top.

    The driver is exact pressure fitted into the wood & inconceivable how it was placed.

    The internal wiring looks good and is nicest I've seen with exception of the Code-X internal wiring.

    Not much more to say except you won't want to open them and void your warranty lol.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  19. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    Zach is a magician, no joke. Wouldn't it be sweet if we could get Zach, @Bill-P, LFF Luis and Alex at Audio Zenith to collaborate on a headphone? They may fight a bit but I think we would get something beyond epic.
     
  20. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Cage fight time!!! :p

    Nah, I'm not in the market to make things. I just tweak things for myself mostly. That said, I don't think you need to include me in the mashup. Luis' target tuning is already plenty close to what I want.
     

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