Post your turntable setup...can't get enough of those spinners!

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by shaizada, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. bxh

    bxh Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2016
    Likes Received:
    279
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Canada
    Yeah, definitely no impedance mismatch present in my system. Going by this graph, as internal impedance increases over the 1-5x reccomended, the top end gets more and more borked. Lowering the internal impedance should be pretty benign.

    [​IMG]

    I believe 1-5x is recommended with transformer loading. dropping down the 5ohm should be no big deal.

    The gain difference between the MM and MC stages is 24db, meaning the 18:1 side is likely used, with a loading impedance of 150ohm it's curious to say this was designed specifically for the Denon 103, unless we are missing something here. Opening it up, I can see there are two 47k ohm resistors loading the MM stage so this is pretty standard.
     
  2. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    Easier said than done, according to this article which uses the Denon DL-103 (stock, Paradox, and Zu aluminum bodies) and Cinemag 3440A (which happens to be the transformer used in the EC Transcription, albeit the 3440APC as confirmed by @bxh via pm) as an example. There is a difference between loading the cart at say 150ohms on my RSA Nighthawk and loading it with 150hms with a SUT. Some may prefer a certain sound that different loading's provide, and being able to A/B quickly between settings is key to hearing a difference (my audio memory sucks). That is why I enjoy the front settings on the Nighthawk, and added a ratio toggle switch on my 1254 SUT.

    http://www.theanalogdept.com/sut.htm

    I only have experience with the Denon DL103 cart, modded TC-750, and my DIY Cinemag 3440 SUT, then later my DIY 1254 SUT. The 1254 was a significant upgrade clarity wise over the 3440A. With both SUT's changing the ratio affected the gain, but when volumes were level matched, the sonic characteristics were also different.

    I have tried the 1254 with my Nighthawks MM settings and preferred for the most part to leave the Nighthawk on it's own using it's MC settings. The 1254 did make provide a fuller, thicker sound at the cost of speed and clarity.

    I almost believe the distortion introduced by the step transformers warms up the sound, or switching from the 1:20 ratio to the 1:40, as does increasing the gain, say from 60dB to 70dB in the MC section of a phono pre
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2018
  3. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The DL103 seems to be a bit of an anomaly. Low output voltage and high output impedance presents some theoretical issues for step up transformers. I saw from the spec sheet they recommend loading the cart at 100ohm minimum, which isn't even 3 times the output voltage. This impedance mismatch is going to get some serious voltage loss. Without having any direct experience I can't say the impact it has on the sound. I would be interested to know if you heard as much difference when swithing from 500 ohm to 1000 ohm as you do when switching from 100 ohm to 500 ohm.

    The DL103r, Quintet, and most other MC carts have much lower output impedance values. This allows for more flexibility to get the desired db gain without worrying about impedance mismatch. Since the MM output is fixed at 47k ohms your loading is going to be determined by the step ratio unless you want to use resistors to tune. Any cart with an output impedance of 10 ohms or less will not generate significant voltage loss when used with common step up ratios 1:10, 1:15, or 1:20.
     
  4. Pyruvate

    Pyruvate Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,425
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Here
    [​IMG]

    Half a year later, finally swapped out the previous OM cart for the "better" Super OM cart (previously I just swapped the stylus). As I suspected, it made a smaller difference than the stylus upgrade. Still listening, but the cart upgrade yields reduced surface noise, blacker background, maybe a tiny bit more air.

    Anyway, just want to give a headsup to those who have carts with an upgradeable stylus.
     
  5. Dotard

    Dotard Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Red Deer
    It's a bit funny how popular the DL103 is, considering it's a bear of a cartridge, has esoteric weight requirements, and is mainly a broadcast arm cart.

    A much more appropriate cart for the majority of turn tables out there is the DL301, but I suppose it is considered too "low end" to have a cult following.
     
  6. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I finally get to post in this thread!

    SpaceDeck_Wand.jpg
     
  7. brencho

    brencho Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,978
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    LA
    the fates smiled on me recently and i made a couple changes to my rig. most notably, an associate of mine emailed me with an offer i couldn't refuse: he was selling his EAR 912 and remembered that i had expressed interest in it almost 2 years ago. i'm just glad he remembered. he made a very generous offer, and so i sold my 868 and 88PB and replaced it with the 912. i really loved the sound of the 88pb and 868 combo and didn't intend on swapping it until this deal came round, and what i'm hearing is really f'ing nice. works great in this system and will probably be there for many years to come. pics or it didn't happen:

    IMG_20180225_233416.jpg
     
  8. shaizada

    shaizada Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Surreal :)

    I have not found much of anything in the world of audio that is likely to surpass the performance of that setup you have there.

    People have other “preferences” or things they might be looking for, but apart from some particular vintage pieces of audio gear that connect to your heart (they don’t really perform like this EAR setup though), this system is an end of life kind of setup for me.

    If you find “better” (whatever that means), please share. I haven’t heard better in my entire audio endeavors for the past 12 years of a very serious pursuit with a relatively deep financial backing.

    Refine and tune it for your ears...few things in life will give you the peace and feeling of soul contentment (I had similar feelings when my daughter came into this world). That is how profound these listening experience can be.

    Enjoy in good health and good fortune Brent. I will always wish, with you and all my friends here on SBAF (no matter how they pursue it) these same feelings of contentment and well being.
     
  9. recstar24

    recstar24 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Chicago
    [​IMG]
    Technics 1200GR with ortofon 2m blue. Really nice sounding combo (feeding a Hagerman bugle 2 properly hidden in back)
     
  10. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,151
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Valencia, CA
    20180315_224148.jpg 20180315_223458.jpg 20180315_224059.jpg
    This is my new Pro-ject Perspex turntable! I had my Debut Carbon for about six years and I decided it was time for an upgrade. I bought the "superpack" version with the Evo III cartridge and A Lounge Copla SUT to feed it.

    It was a bit of a bitch to set up, between getting the plinth relatively flat and balancing the magnetic sub-chassis. And I had to keep my shit together when mounting the cartridge since it didn't come with a stylus guard. All in all, I took my time and spent about 4 hours assembling it and setting up the tonearm and cartridge. Pro-ject manuals suck all kinds of ass: a bare minimum of information.

    I don't have a proper audio rack yet, and I didn't want to mate those metal feet to the glass shelf, so I borrowed some unused sorbothane/steel feet from my Wharfedales.

    The Copla SUT has a cool "transimpedance" feature that allows you to adjust the load settings on the fly and kinda acts like a gain /tone control.

    I'm still settling into the sound of the new table, but I can say there's virtually no motor noise. And the magnetic suspension for the sub chassis does a pretty decent job of isolating the platter and arm from any ground vibrations. And I'm very glad I made the move to MC from MM. It's a whole different ballgame in bass control and overall tonal subtlety.
     
  11. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,758
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Jackson, Mi
    Alright folks, here is my newly acquired setup. The turntable is from @Vansen (Thanks dude!), picked up the rest of the stuff elsewhere. First album I'm listening to is Wish You Were Here (my favorite album) and wow does it sound incredible. For now until my wife and I buy a house I'll be using this metal rack with some pieces of wood and foam to dampen vibrations. Ideally I'll pick up a salamander rack or something in the future. Next album up is 2112!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
  13. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,758
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Jackson, Mi
    I went with the u-turn Pluto, sounds fantastic to my ears but I don't have experience with any other phono pre-amps that aren't built-in to the table or a receiver.

    I'm listening to the same master of 2112 on my modi multibit and the difference is striking, in favor of the vinyl. It just sounds so much more musical and smooth. Could be placebo but either way I'm happy.

    Edit: Not the same master, as I discovered later.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  14. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,151
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Valencia, CA
    Enjoy! A solid setup. My DMM 2112 sounds amazing on my rig: very quiet regarding surface noise, and very dynamic. Sean Magee nailed it.
     
  15. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,758
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Jackson, Mi
    Your post made me realize the 2112 CD I have isn't the same master as the vinyl. The CD is from the '97 remasters, and this album is also a DMM. This could have allot to do with the sound difference. Since there is no DMM master of 2112 on CD (at least not that I could find...) I'll just have to compare with the Wish You Were Here I picked up, which after some research IS the same master as the CD I have.
     
  16. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    That's basically my reason to get into vinyl. The vinyl versions are typically mastered 'better'. That's not to say that there isn't some magic with an all analog setup, but source is super important.
     
  17. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,151
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Valencia, CA
    The entire Rush catalog was remastered at Abby Road in 2015. Download and vinyl are the same masters
     
  18. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,417
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You can't crush the f**k out of the vinyl masters if like the needle staying put in the groove. So that's a good thing most of the time. The Rush remasters are good. I just picked up the first album and it's better than the original pressing IMO.

    In other news, I've been running this beast of a cart lately and it's amazeballs. Got it on the cheap from abroad and I think the newest silent revision is even slightly better. But I'm not complaining.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    I was speaking more generally. That's good about Rush though, too bad I can't stand Rush.
     
  20. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Sweet cart! I thought it was solidly ahead of the CAR60 in Fremer’s sound samples.

    Edit: wrt to vinyl masters... at least they have to pay attention. Usually its for the better but it does vary. For example the last Adele album had compression taken out in the vinyl master (thanks Ryan K Smith!) however sometimes they also do things like roll off the bass early like on Bruno Mars 24K Magic... (no thanks to the Porker responsible for that!)
     

Share This Page