Schiit Freya Preamp Review (Episodic)

Discussion in 'Preamps' started by purr1n, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    Awesome. Thanks so much! Off to the tube tester now
     
  2. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    I notice that since I got the Gungnir Multibit and started running balanced outs from it to the Freya, I can now use passive mode and it effectively drives Vidar to the levels I expect from it. Still have to turn it up a long way, but I certainly cannot turn it up all the way like I could with Modi Multibit running single ended. Also when running the tube stage I get the same SPL at a lower volume setting than before. I assume this is because of the higher voltage from the balanced outputs.

    It is nice to be able to take full advantage of all three output stages now. I still prefer the sound of the tube stage though.
     
  3. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    So it has been almost a month since my last post in this thread, and I'm no longer sure whether I prefer the tube sound or the passive mode. They both sound really, really good, just different. I've not really spent any time (or more specifically, any money) tube rolling, just using some NOS Raytheon 6SN7GTBs in both stages that I got for a good price. Being as this is actually my first experience with tube gear I think I have a better idea of what it adds, generally, to the overall effect, but I can also see buying tubes becoming sort of a rabbit hole I'm not sure I want to go down.

    I have become kind of curious about the LISSTs though. Just wondering if anyone here is using them and if so what are your subjective impressions? I'm getting close to ordering a second Vidar and thinking I might snag a set of those at the same time......
     
  4. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    After having to eat my words about how glorious the PSA DSJr volume control was once Saga was in the mix, I started exploring more and bought a Freya locally - this came with a basic EH quad. Tested on my stereo setup and not headphones yet which consists of the previously mentioned dac, Tyler Acoustic Linbrook floorstanders (essentially a slightly redesigned Seas Thor kit) and Don Sachs' Kootenay 120 KT88 power amp.

    I have not compared, DSJr, Saga or Freya against each other but will in time. With Saga, I do notice a slight difference using different tubes in tonality, high frequency extension and accentuation, it was often subtle - for me Passive sounded fine but a little boring for my tastes and active gave it a bit of life.

    Enter Freya. I hooked up using balanced-in and the required SE-out, and have cycled through the various modes with passive/jfet sounded damn near identical to me at this time. However, there is a noticeable difference of strengths and weaknesses of passive vs. active. Passive I hear a lot more micro-details, reverb hangs longer and bass hits like a f*cking freight train, highs seem a bit relaxed. Active I hear a much taller soundstage and only slightly wider (depth I cannot recall right now). There is a bit of midrange bloom and pick up some veil/haze smearing of details compared to passive, and highs are smooth and pleasing. Neither mode has sibilance that I can detect.

    Despite very short ownership, I'm kind of at a loss on modes and where to go with this. Passive to me gets all the details and control but doesn't project nearly as big (I like a bit soundstage) - timbre seems a bit off on both compared to Saga using RCA GTB(?) tube which just seems to get it right. At this time, the hugest difference that I can tell is bass control - in active it sounds like a flabby fart and frankly I'm kind of disappointed.
     
  5. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I’m going to suggest possibly not the best tubes, although no personal knowledge of the EH tubes. 2 great tubes in the gain side can probably provide much better bass. Another 2 good ones in the output side would likely take it over the top although not totally necessary since they have less of an impact on the overall sound.
     
  6. Sniperpr5

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    For me personally the best combo I found for the Freya to get good bass and soundstage is using Ken-Rad VT-231 in the output stage and Raytheon VT-231 in the gain stage.

    This pairing of tubes just hit a sweet spot for me.
     
  7. e.schell

    e.schell Friend

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    What else does your chain consist of?
     
  8. Sniperpr5

    Sniperpr5 Acquaintance

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    If you are asking me...that particular chain is Gungnir Multibit > Freya > LSR305s/ Jotunheim.

    I have tried various Sylvania tubes and the two hole early 50’s 6SN7 GT’s are good as well if you don’t want to spring for the 3 hole “Bad Boy’s”
     
  9. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Thanks for the recommendations guys.

    To confirm, matched pairs are required, not matched quads correct?
     
  10. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Yep. Matched pair for the right side (gain stage) vs. left side (output buffer).
     
  11. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I managed to score a used quad of the octal LISSTs (locally, which almost never happens) for Freya that I’ll be picking up this week. Will be interesting to see how they sound. Really haven’t read many impressions of them.
     
  12. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    Let us know because I am curious also. I've looked for reviews and there is not a lot out there. I thought about adding some to my last Schiit order, but decided to wait.

    Interestingly, now that I am running balanced out from the Freya I can hear the difference between passive and the jfet buffer, whereas before they basically sounded the same. Passive sounds kind of lean now, actually. I guess that is why that buffer is there......
     
  13. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    I had a chance to compare Freya vs. Saga in passive mode last night.

    DSJr SE-out -> Saga -> splitter -> MCTH -> HD650
    DSJr BAL-out -> Freya -> splitter -> MCTH -> HD650

    After volume matching them both, I used the volume control on MCTH, trying to keep in mind measurement's Bob had done with that amp such that keeping the volume around 1'o'clock was ideal. MCTH has stock tube in it.

    Not surprisingly, these two preamps sound more similar than different. Where I was able to pick out differences (keep in mind this is my system) were sound stage, layering/instrument separation, and "air".

    Soundstage - Freya has me in row 5 vs. Saga being row 1. Width seemed awfully similar, height is pointless to talk about using headphones.

    Separation - Freya seems to delineate instruments more than Saga. This was subtle but distinguishable on such busy tracks as Mumford and Sons' Johannesburg album - There Will Be Time, for example (cool album by the way). In comparison, Saga can sound a bit congested. So, either Freya exaggerates things or Saga congests things -- relatively speaking (ie: Saga is not a woolly blanket of congested poo). I like Freya more often but for single singers with reverb layered, Saga made them sound more coherent.

    "Air" - All I could pick up here is that drums had a bit more snap to them with Saga. On some tracks it sounded more exciting, on others it seemed a bit over-emphasized. I thought reverb hung a little longer but I also attribute that to Saga being a bit more forward to notice it more than Freya missing detail.

    Again, these two preamps sound remarkably similar. I think I prefer Freya more right now because I don't feel like I'm missing details while at the same time feels a bit less forward, I like the separation and for my setup, I think the BAL-out contributes to a much better blackground than the SE-out from my DSJr (honestly the word 'inky blackness' came to mind for the first time ever). The back of my rack is a rat's nest so maybe I'm getting noise, or maybe the BAL-out is better implemented in that regard than the SE-out (though PSA claim it's exactly the same).

    In the end Freya seems like a better fit for me based on preferences and my equipment.

    Going forward, I am fortunate in that I have 3 x Psvane CV181 tubes that should be exactly the same; 1 for Saga and a pair for the gain in Freya.
     
  14. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    When did you get the Pavane tubes? Did they fix your bass issue?
     
  15. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    I'll pluck them out of my stereo power amp.

    Correction: They fit in Saga, do not fit in Freya.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  16. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Have you tried the Raytheons throughout? What do you feel the Ken-Rad's bring to the output stage (I assume quite subtle?)?
     
  17. Sniperpr5

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    I have not tried Raytheon’s in both stages. The Output stage doesn’t have a drastic effect on sound.

    The Ken-Rad’s are known for their bass. With the KR in the gain stage I felt like the bass was great but the soundstage was noticeably smaller and my KR are slightly microphonic.

    The Raytheon’s seem to have a larger stage but not quite the bass of the KR.
    So with the Raytheon in the gain and the KR in the output I feel like I get the staging of the Raytheon and some of the bass of the KR, plus it helps with the microphonics of the KR being in the output stage.

    I also added some Vibrapods under the stack and that helped tremendously with the slightly microphonic KR’s.
     
  18. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I think you probably just need some socket savers to use them in Freya. Beware however, they can be a bitch to get out once you put them in.

    I think these are the right ones, but they don’t list 6SN7, so you’d like have to ask them if they’re compatible (unless someone here already knows):

    https://www.partsconnexion.com/SOCKET-74489.html
     
  19. Argopo

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    I am using the LISST quad set in my Freya. I have no complaints about the sound. And I have a box full of choice 6SN7s.

    My use case is:

    Marantz SACD (SE) > Freya (LISST) > Balanced M3 Headphone Amp

    I want the SE/BAL conversion that the tube stage offers.

    When listening through my tube amp, I use the passive mode, since I don’t need the SE/BAL conversion.

    I haven’t made any direct sonic comparisons with the 6SN7s and the LISST devices. All I can say is I haven’t encountered any technical difficulties with the LISST devices, unlike some people on HF.

    For my purposes, the Freya is a gem of a preamp.
     
  20. leafy

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    I am wondering if you have tried mixing the LISSTs with tubes? Specifically input stage with real tubes and driver stage with LISSTs?
     

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