Schiit Freya Preamp Review (Episodic)

Discussion in 'Preamps' started by purr1n, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    That is also interesting, where did you hear that? I noticed when I ordered mine that they did not list the noval models anymore, only the octals. If they are not going to be produced anymore I wonder why that is - lack of sufficient sales or reliability issues? From my reading it does not appear they have any more reliability issues than one would expect so I can only speculate it is the former. I'm glad i got mine when I did then.
     
  2. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Better confirm what is happening with LISST tubes with @schiit before the rumour mill gets out of hand.
     
  3. zonto

    zonto Friend

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  4. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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  5. leafy

    leafy Facebook Friend

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    I think it would make sense for the next schiit preamp (if any) to be a tube hybrid, with gain stage roll-able and solid state driver stage.
     
  6. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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  7. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    @zonto Thanks for pointing that out. Too bad they don't have Loki in B-stock, so expensive to ship to Canada for some reason.
     
  8. Noldir

    Noldir New

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    Yea , not so much rumour mill but it was kind of a surprise they dropped them so suddenly. Understandable, but still...
     
  9. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I did a bunch more listening as well to the LISSTs in both stages, just so I could get their full effect vs. the other modes (or my tubes).

    Usually I hate analogies in describing gear, but I will break with convention here and use one - I would describe the LISSTs like a great cup of medium roast coffee: intense, bold, slightly dark, rich, smooth, dense.

    They’re very dynamic, with really good tonal density, smooth and clean, but with a narrow, denser stage that’s less open than all the other modes. The stage is also pushed forward, but they actually still create some really nice front-to-back layering that sounds even better than with my tubes. So not a pushed-forward 1-dimensional flat plane, which I hate. However this is not a “tube” you want if you prefer the soundfield to be broad and tall and set-back/laid-back. But if you want more excitement and impact than passive (or JFET for that matter) the LISST are good options. They definitely sound smoother and cleaner than my tubes, which now sound like they have a slightly higher noise floor in comparison (makes sense I suppose since they’re solid state).

    When I said before they sounded like JFET mode x5, it’s really on the dynamics side of things, not the tonal side. Actually doing this comparison has allowed me to really narrow in on JFET mode well now. Although it’s very slight, it just sounds less warm, less rounded, more dynamic and dry, but also more etched and sharper in the upper mids and lower treble than passive mode. I really don’t prefer JFET mode due to the loss of warmth and etched/sharper mids and upper end. Sounds thinner and scratchier, and definitely does not complement Yggdrasil, in my system at least.

    On the LISST side, tonally they have really strong, powerful bass (maybe a bit too much?) and are a bit mid forward, with really clear, smooth vocals that have great body. The highs are a bit dark and rolled off however - nice for offensive recordings, and not a bad thing for matching with Yggdrasil’s slightly tipped up highs, but with the quad in Freya I find it a bit too dark, and the top end definitely loses some bite and sparkle that should be there. Even female vocals sound a bit constricted on the top.

    So overall, as you said @Kernel Kurtz, not perfectly neutral. I like a lot of what I hear, except for the lack of openness / narrow stage and slightly too rolled-off on top end for me. So a quad of these in Freya is not something I’ll be doing.

    However, all is not lost. Most of the stage narrowing I have found seems to come from the from the output buffer. When I tried the configuration that @Kernel Kurtz has, with tubes in the gain stage, and LISST in the output stage, the stage was still collapsed and everything sounded a bit dense and closed in and dark for me. However, when I reversed it, everything changed: the stage opened up, the airiness and extended highs from the tube returned, but it still had a ton of the punch and dynamics, strong bass (but not quite as much as the quad which is a good thing) and the really full smooth mids from the LISSTs. Still forward in the stage, but plenty wide and tall with the impressive layering. I’m actually using my Northern Electric tubes in the output stage, which normally I find a bit too bright and etched, but in this case they’re a perfect balance with the smooth and slightly dark LISSTs.

    I’ll be sticking with this setup for a while:

    17E05C47-5471-4870-86A6-ABA40F62B5EE.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  10. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    Interesting. I never tried that combination as I like the "tube sound" and figured I would lose too much of it that way (or perhaps after 40 years of solid state systems maybe just the novelty of my first tube gear has yet to wear off). I'll give that a shot in the next few days and see how I like it.

    As a totally off topic aside, how do you do that @username thing here? I'm used to using HTML or proprietary scripting on various message boards so I can certainly manually add a user=# and /user tag, but I would have thought there would be a way to do it through the UI and damned if I can find it........
     
  11. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    @Kernel Kurtz - Just type "@" and then keep typing the name of the member and the list of people will pop up on the screen. When I type "@Ker" your name pops up on the screen in a small box and I click on it to get @Kernel Kurtz!
     
  12. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    @rlow Thanks man, that's great.

    @Kernel Kurtz all you have to do is type "@" and the first three letters right after (no spaces). You should then be able to click the little pop-up with the full name and avatar.
     
  13. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    Thanks @msommers and @mscott58!

    I just (wrongly) assumed it would have a button in the formatting toolbar.
     
  14. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    You will lose some of the sound of your tubes, but for me, it was not as much as I expected. The output stage actually has more impact on the sound in this setup than I had always assumed. Now if you have great tubes that you really prefer, you still may lose too much. There’s definitely a trade off in what you gain from the LISSTs but I did get a lot of what I was missing back when I put the NE tubes in the output.

    I will say the NE tubes are quite aggressive on openness and top end. They’re actually the most open sounding tube I’ve heard, so that may have something to do with why they worked so well in the output stage. And the top end is just right now, where they are typically too bright. When I mix the NE tubes with other tubes, they’re too aggressive on the top end, and lack warmth and body through the mids (and as a quad they’re way too over the top for me). I was actually planning to sell the NE tubes, but now I’ll wait and see how this setup works out with more extended listening and music choices.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  15. yotacowboy

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    I, too, found the NE and similar, if not the same construction Sophia's to be really, really open while using them in the gain stage. There could be something to gain (derp!) by playing the mix-and-match game between gain and driver stages, but oh, the nervousa. I think the driver stage may affect the sound more than Jason or Mike have let on. Maybe if I do a staycation over the holidays and find myself with 8 days to go certifiably insane...
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  16. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Yeah, tube rolling. Not sure if it's a blessing or a curse.:eek:
     
  17. Justin S

    Justin S Friend

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    The Freya can kick out a bit of intermittent low level noise from the tube gain stage (with both NOS or current tubes - even with Lisst - likely from my power source). If you set your monitors up with some attenuation, it will kill any noise issues from the tubes. I have found if you're comfortably listening at 2:00 ish from the Freya, it's really compelling - deep black background and rich staging - much more so than going passive or JFET. I'm running it with a pair of Neumann KH120a monitors in a nearfeild configuration in my suite and it's thing of beauty.
     
  18. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    How do you find this combo? I'm looking at going active and this Dynaudio is one on my list. Have Freya.

    Tried any other preamps? Do you find different tubes make a pretty noticeable difference?
     
  19. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    I haven't used my BM15As in a long while, and I don't own a Freya - but they have balanced input, so Freya makes sense.

    From what I remember, the bass is fantastic (as you would expect - no sub required) compared with "audiophile" stuff I heard in the same price range. Non-fatiguing treble (I didn't like the Genelec or Mackie 824 which I compared, Genelecs were shouty). Mids won't be a strong point with a 2 way like this. They can play super loud without issue. I consider these excellent value. The main downside is the size/weight and WAF (I used a pair of TV brackets to wall-mount).

    I also have in my car the Esotar2 110 tweeters and 162GT, so I guess I am a Dynaudio fanboy ;)

    I think you should consider the BM15 too, if you already have a nice big solid state amp.
     
  20. Dr J

    Dr J Friend

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    Has anyone else observed an out-of-phase behavior of Freya?

    Ran across this while setting up Freya as a switcher for selecting between AV receiver or Yggdrasil as the source to active speakers.

    Setup 1: AV receiver RCA out-> RCA to XLR cable -> XLR to XLR cable -> XLR-in of active speakers.

    Setup 2: AV receiver RCA out -> RCA to XLR cable -> Freya XLR in to Freya XLR-out -> XLR to XLR cable -> XLR-in of active speakers.

    Otherwise exactly the same room arrangements and rest of the system and settings. I.e. the only difference is if two cables ar plugged to teach other or if Freya is between them in the chain.

    When doing room calibration (with Yamaha YPAO), the Setup 1 goes normally, but Setup 2 results in Yamaha warning that the L and R speakers are out of phase.

    This happens with both passive and JFET stages. It also happens when going from AC receiver RCA out -> RCA to RCA cable -> RCA in of Freya with otherwise the same configuration.

    Also tried other RCA-XLR and XLR-XLR cables in case I had a funky cable. But it did not change the results.

    With Ragnarok the out of phase did not happen.

    I wonder if somehow the design of Freya leads to this, or if I have a incorrectly wired Freya. A quick google failed to find similar experiences.

    Also wondering if this happens when listening to the Yggdrasil XLR out -> Freya XLR in to Freya XLR out --> XLR in of active speakers and if it actually skews the phase also in this case. And if I then flip the phase in Yggdrasil, does that in effect restore the "normal" phase.

    Any experiences, advice and thoughts would be very welcome.
     

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