Coffee: we drink it or we get angry.

Discussion in 'Food and Drink' started by Jeb, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. loki993

    loki993 Facebook Friend

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    That's a pretty awesome chart

    reverse that literally everything Ive read has said sour is under extracted and over is bitter:
    Underextracted=Bitter
    Overextracted=Sour

    the one problem with a drip maker, even a supposed good one like I have, is there is no way to control the brew time or temperature. So my only options to control extraction really is messing with the grind size...so really I need to get a grinder and play with it until I get satisfactory results I suppose. So I need to find a decent burr grinder that doesn't break the bank too much. Ive tried to mess with the amount if coffee I use too to control it a bit but then the coffee ends up getting too weak and I still get the flavor a bit.
     
  2. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Almost "Made"

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    After messing around with drip, I finally ended up going Aeropress. To do it right you need a temp controlled kettle and a grinder that makes a consistent grind. I have a Bonavita kettle and an Orphan Espresso Lido grinder... Now I make a great cup every time:)
     
  3. DigMe

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    I’ve used about every brewing method there is and my go-to is pour over (with a Hario V60). I also have a Lido grinder but I mostly use my electric Baratza for convenience. Your Bonavita electric brewer is absolutely capable of brewing great coffee. The two things you really need to focus on here are grind and water to coffee ratio and you need to be methodical about it. Since you don’t have a grinder then I suggest getting a standard drip grind ( grinding too fine is a common problem that leads to overextraction) and focus on adjusting ratio. I personally use a 16:1 water to coffee ratio. 17:1 would be weaker and 15:1 would be stronger. 17:1 is fairly common. To really do this methodically requires a scale to weigh your water and coffee grounds. So for instance if you have 30 grams of coffee multiply by 17 for a 17:1 ratio and that gives you 510. So use 510 ml of water. Weigh it out on your scale 1g=1ml.

    Or if you weigh out 450ml of water (roughly 16oz) then you divide 450/17 for 27g of coffee. If you find the 17:1 ratio weak then next time brew 16:1.

    This is all second nature to me at this point brewing my pour over on a scale and I have my amounts for various amounts of coffee memorized. Makes for a much more consistent cup than putzing around somewhat blindly with grind and amounts (been there!).
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  4. famish99

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    This is correct, Under = Sour and Over is Bitter (or burned). Playing with grind amount for a drip based system is pretty low effectiveness, assuming you're running close to 16:1, if not, buying a scale is first priority. Otherwise, your best bet really is to get a better grinder (Baratza/Mahlkonig Encore is a decent starting point, there's a decent Capresso or Breville that could be a little cheaper, but I've not used it myself).

    Taking pourover as an extension of a drip machine, your variables go grind > temp >> pour speed > ground/water ratio. Aeropress on the other hand can be greatly affected by ratio, but still to a lesser effect than plunge pressure and the rest (obviously pour speed matters significantly less on Aero). However, they all sort of affect extraction differently, it's possible to make a coffee stronger and sour (increase temp while grinding coarser or dump water quicker) at the same time or weaker and more bitter (drop temp while grinding finer).

    For reference, I mostly brew on a SAI Phoenix 70 v2 or Hario v60 03 glass, with occasional Wave and Aero using a Bonavita scale and gooseneck kettle.
     
  5. loki993

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    I may have to just eventually reserve the machine to quick coffee duty and get something else for my good stuff, or use the french press I have. It would just suck to have spent all that money on the machine and not have to accomplish what It should.

    Yeah messing with the amount I use doesn't seem to do very much.

    I do need a grinder, Ive been trying to get different grinds from the shop to see if I can get one that works for me but thats not ideal for a number of reasons. Around a hundred was the one I was looking at but I can't remember which one that is now without going and looking. So the Baratza at seemingly 140ish isnt bad.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  6. winterfog

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    I would also examine the cream's expiration date. Cream or milk that hasn't quite turned bad in the fridge but is on the verge can get pushed over the edge to curdling when it hits the hot, acidic environment of a mug of coffee, and that can contribute an off flavor to the cup. I find that this is especially the case with higher fat-content creamers like half-and-half or heavy cream; the fat can hide the off flavor until it emulsifies in the coffee. You might want to buy fresh cream more often. https://www.quora.com/When-half-and...es-that-mean-that-harmful-bacteria-is-present
     
  7. HAL9000

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    Whoops! I hadn't had my coffee when I wrote that:) Post corrected...
     
  8. loki993

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    I don't put cream in my good coffee and even if I did it doesnt last long enough in my house to ever get close to going bad lol . The cream too is usually that flavored fufu stuff because I like the taste and they I don't have to put any sugar and I swear that stuff is shelf stable for a couple years...not really but it does last quite a long time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  9. Gruss Gott

    Gruss Gott Almost "Made"

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    @DigMe nails it, i'd also add don't let the coffee sit on a heater ever - brew into a thermos and then done. Like @DigMe I've tried everything - for drip, which I quit years ago, i used a Technivorm Moccamaster into the thermal pitcher which has excellent temperature control and is essentially a pour-over machine, just before that was the rage. Anyway, if you're looking for a new maker, that one was spectacular for me:

    [​IMG]

    For a grinder, America's Test Kitchen recently did a pretty extensive test and the $14 Krups blade grinder does pretty awesome - I have 3 of those!


    I also have a Baratza ceramic burr Vario, and the Encore, and my big boy, the Compak k-10. Of all of them, I'd say I like the Baratza's the best. The K-10 is great, but it's an industrial grinder built to run all day and nobody really needs that, plus, while it's extremely consistent, its coarsest grind isn't quite large enough for cold brew / press and it's big, but I still use it because I can easily do multiple pounds at a time. If I was only doing 1 lb I'd go with the vario.

    For making Cold Brew (which if I want hot I heat up - bad! but it works) I use a Brim which at $50 is kinda spendy, especially because I don't even use the pitcher, but it makes a gallon at a time and the filters are easy to use and replace. My recipe is simple: 1.25 gallons of RO water, 1lb of fresh espresso roasted coarse ground. put it in the Brim, let it sit about 18 hours on the counter, set the brim on a 1 gallon Ikea jar.

    Anyway, cold brew or pour-over + a decent grinder makes controlling temp and brew time super super easy. With good beans and even the $14 Krups grinder anyone can make stellar coffee

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Syzygy

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    I use the Hario Mini Slim hand grinder (only make a cup or two at a time). It's compact so it travels well, ceramic burr grinder, and is quiet for those times when my wife is still asleep (she has dog hearing and is a light sleeper).

    That and a gram scale and a mini press with plastic handle (for microwave heat-ups) and a bag of beans, and I'm having decent coffee just about anywhere. Most water dispensers I've had to deal with only get to about 190ºF, and I like to brew at 203-205, depending upon the beans, and usually 15:1 - 17:1 ratios, 3-4 minutes, each again depending upon the bean and my experience with it.

    I also grind finer than everyone says you're "supposed to" for press, because I like the flavor better. Sometimes I do get a very small amount of sediment in the bottom of the cup, but that's an easy thing…just don't take the last sip!

    I grew up drinking my grandmother's stovetop or electric perk coffee. When drip systems came along and became the rage I thought the coffee tasted very weak. I think I still have 2 or 3 percolators around here somewhere, but they haven't seen a coffee bean in 30+ years.
     
  11. Questhate

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    Is @DigMe my twin? My daily coffee setup is exactly the same: Hario V60, Lido 3 (but Baratza usually for convenience) with a Bonavita kettle. I also have a Chemex, Yama siphon brewer, Aeropress, french press, and other gizmos at home, but nothing beats the pour-over for good beans. I normally use a 400g/25g ratio.

    Are there any roasters in here, that use an Aillio Bullet R1? I totally missed out on Sweet Marias's shipment a few weeks back, but they're expecting another one in February. Feedback seems to be great on it, but curious if anyone here had any impressions especially since there are more in the wild these days.
     
  12. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    Any recommendations for a scale with a built in timer too? It seems the Hario has some build and accuracy issues. I see Bonavita has one but I haven’t found much real hands on info on it.
     
  13. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    I've used the Hario for a couple of years and have no issues with it.

    I can't claim it's the most accurate thing on Earth since I haven't compared it to other scales, but nothing has made me want to look elsewhere.
     
  14. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    @DigMe @Questhate

    Back when I drank coffee daily, my setup at work was a V60, Lido 3, and Bonavita variable kettle too! Such an easy setup to use and get great quality coffee from. I mostly just drink matcha now, but Barnine was my favorite source of coffee.
     
  15. famish99

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    How much money do you want to blow, because if you are feeling flush there's this: https://acaia.co/collections/coffee-scales/products/pearl?variant=3791487303703

    The newer Bonavita scale has lots of reliability issues and I never liked the Hario scale because it never read quickly enough for me. I personally run the older version of the the Bonavita scale (it can use an AC adapter) and I love it.
     
  16. DigMe

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    I buy these cheapass Diguo brand scales in china. I’m on my second one after I drenched the first one but they work well and the best part is (since I’m no longer using a Bonavita electric kettle) it comes with a thermoprobe that plugs into the side and also shows water temp on the scale display. I wish it was more robust but I really like it otherwise.
     
  17. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    I've heard this complaint a lot, but I've never understood it.

    It takes a couple of seconds to lock in. Is that too long? My water is always heating up, anyway, so I'm not sure what the benefit of saving a half second would be...?

    No biggie. It's just one of the reasons I didn't buy one at first. Now that I have it, I'm genuinely baffled.
     
  18. famish99

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    I don't preweigh my water for a number of reasons, temperature stability during the pour being the primary one. So during the pouring process, if it reads a little slow it's easy to overshoot the desired pour amount. You can learn to compensate for it, but I had a fast scale first and the Hario for a secondary setup and never liked switching back and forth.
     
  19. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    Ah, I see. It's about the water and not the coffee beans.

    I do the same with my water, so I get what you're saying. Like you said, though, I adjusted quickly since it's the only scale I use. I may be off by a gram or two at most, but that seems negligible to me.
     
  20. Questhate

    Questhate Friend

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    I use one of those cheap $15 kitchen scales from Amazon. I don't usually time my brews, though I should more rather than rely on my internal clock.
     

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