SBAF DAC Talk II

The dac was Gungnir Multibit.
It was fed with various cd transports among them the cd players Yamaha CD-S300 and CD-S1000 and the pure transports
cyrus cd transport and cambridge cxc.
My pure subjective thoughts are that
The dedicated transports gave better sonic results despite the Yamaha CD-S1000 being an expensive unit with very good cd tray and laser pick up mechanism.
The worst results were by far from a generic usb dvd drive and pc with foobar.
The sound was thin and bright compared to the other combo's.
But when i was comparing a cd being played from the transport - dac the sound was always better from the same cd being played as a flac rip from pc/foobar/Gungnir Multibit and please note that the flac was not my rip but legit download from presto classical
directly made from the master tape.

But when i was trying my Gungnir Multibit balanced with a cd transport vs the analogue out of the Yamaha CD-S1000 the Gungnir Multibit was better only by a slight margin.
Then i tried various cd players of the same cost as Gungnir Multibit vs the Gungnir Multibit + transport i.e Arcam CDS50 and others and i ended that i was preferring the cd players vs the Gungnir Multibit for cd playback.
So i sold Gungnir Multibit and transports.

 

Oh boy, that's a big can of worms.

Theoretically the CD and the lossless file, assuming both are16/44.1, should be of equal quality - in fact I'd posit that data read from an HD or SSD is far less likely to encounter read errors than data read from a CD.

If comparing like to like directly then the provenance of the lossless file needs to be accounted for - is it actually from the same master and issue of the CD? The best way to remove this variable from the equation is to rip the CD in question using something like Exact Audio Copy for Windows, or XLD for Mac and then compare.

Still a difference? OK, then is the CD player app doing something differently to the lossless player app? And this is where it starts getting complex.

You then have to start asking how the different apps are routing the audio date through the OS' audio framework, or is one or other of the apps bypassing the audio framework and talking to the DAC directly (no longer possible on MacOS). A modern OS has an extremely complex audio framework and there are many modes and ways to send audio data through it, which can and do alter the data - for instance invisibly converting everything to 32bit float, and/or upsampling the data before sending it to the DAC.

Then you need to ask what the app itself is doing, if anything, to the data, before passing it to the audio framework. Again upsampling could be occurring, or even worse, normalisation.

The truth is that there are far too many variables with regards to music reproduction via computer to declare the superiority of one format over another when both are lossless at the same bit depth and sampling rate.

It may be that the way your system is configured gives it the edge to CD playback, but somebody else's system may have the edge playing back audio direct from the HD, SSD, and this will often be dependent on which particular apps are used, and how the audio framework is setup.

 

Speaking from ignorance ...

It seems that a well-designed CD player has read errors (and more importantly, timing issues) at the heart of the digital design. Large buffers, decent clocks, and ASIC-based no-latency output circuitry would be obvious design choices. Computers don’t typically have these dedicated circuits.

 

Ah, I didn’t cover that in my post, but the OP was talking about playing a “CD in their PC”, which I assume to mean using the inbuilt CD/DVD unit, which in the case that is true it would be simply transferring data to the PC in much the same way an HD or SSD would, and would therefore be susceptible to all the issues described in my previous post.

 

Is there a difference between using spdif out direct from PC to DAC vs USB out > decrapifier > spdif?

 

Hi all, I was wondering whether to open a new thread but decided to land my question in here, hope dislikes will not rain on this rando mercilessly.

I am a complete noob in DACs world and have very limited listening experience with DACs. Currently, I own Opus 1S portable DAP. Last month, by some cruel twist of fate, I received on a loaner Opus 2 and fell in love with its timbres tonality. With Opus 2, instruments sound much more authentic to my ears (I use THX 789 and HE560 in my setup, Verum 1 is on the way).

Taking into account that Opus 2 is way too pricey for me (and has battery problems and USB DAC glitches with my notebook), I decided to look for a similarly sounding stationary DAC. A friend of mine let me listen to his PS Audio Digital Link III DAC and I liked it a lot, to my ears it sounds quite similar to Opus 2. And it is easy to get at 350 USD, BUT it is a 2007 DAC. Definitely, there are much better USB interfaces now, and it will be a hell of a task to sell it once I decide to move on. So I decided not to buy it. Also, another of my audio buddies has Vinshine R2R DAC (old soekris inside) and I liked it even more but it is quite expensive for my budget. But it got me looking into R2Rs and I've found Denafrips Ares, which has a price at the higher end of my budget and received a lot of praise from HF forum and my local audio acquaintance. I almost bought it but after reading Torq's review I decided to hold my horses and do more research on the multibit DACs within 600 USD limit.

Thus, the question:

Will Modi Multibit (with or without Eitr) satisfy my need to have a natural tonality similar to Opus 2 level or should I go for Ares or maybe there are some even better options that I have missed? Kindly advise.

P.S. One of the options I'm entertaining is to buy Modi Multibit now and patiently wait for Massdrop R2R.

 

Of course, I would be glad to bring something to this forum instead of taking. But it will be in three weeks time at the least since I ordered it a week ago through Verum Audio website, not on Kickstarter.

I already had a short (30 mins) listening test between them but it was no way proper, as I was limited in time and lacked comfort. To my ears, Verum sounded more natural in tonality, live instruments seemed more authentic. Also, Verum seemed more extended in the sub-bass region and generally more bassy (but not exaggerated like LCD2, imho). Also, Verum is definitely not so aggressive on ears in a high-frequency region. HE560 seemed more detailed though, with more overall clarity to its sound. Will provide more info when I get more listening time and HE560 will not have benefit of having my ears used to them.

 

Posted something slightly similar in general advice thread a few weeks back but want to ask from a DAC perspective now:

After trying several possible TOTL (by my standards) amps, I think I'm eventually going to settle for a Stellaris, one solid state amp (not sure which yet, still looking), and probably a 3rd amp in either EC Af or ampsandsound Mogwai w/ input transformers (different sounds, not sure which would complement a Stellaris better). Transducers below in my sig, will most likely switch out Aeon for Ether 1.1 (mostly for long session comfort) and add a ZMF (either Auteur or Aeolus, try to revive my UERM as well. This will be for a while (5-10 years).

However, I haven't had the opportunity to try as many DACs yet. Anyone notice a synergy between the below DACs and some combination of the equipment above? Brief impressions/thoughts for reference point.

DS - I prefer DS for some genres, typically busier music, much where speed and transients matter more.
- RME ADI 2 DAC: This seems popular and well implemented with some features I consider nice to have for under $1k. Will probably not use the onboard amp. Sound may also be slightly analytical for me, but not so much that I'd be unhappy.
- Possibly a Crane Song Solaris: Haven't had a chance to listen yet but based on what I've seen online it looks like I may like the sound of this more than RME while also letting me "skip" the RME... but it also costs ~2x more. Also as it's been noted in Convert 2 thread this is pro audio gear and wrong set up could = dead gear - something I'm not excited about.

R2R/similar
- Yggdrasil OR Holo Springs lvl3: Yggdrasil has a really fun but still accurate sound but the constant clicking when changing songs gets old really fast for me. Holo Springs in my limited experience has a little more detail but is a little less "fun" sounding (closer to Soekris sound which I have, but not so close that I wouldn't consider the 3). Differences between both of these and my existing Soekris would make a good complementary pair IMO, whichever one I pick.

 

I'd hold off on the Holo Springs for a bit as they have a new TOTL model (Holo Spring 2 KTE) and impressions are very lacking.

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-spring2-dac-kitsune-tuned-edition/

So far the only initial impression I've see here:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-impressions-reviews.3172/page-20#post-241168

Given you have the 1421, what do you like and wish you had more/less of?

 

I posted an initial impressions here after my first week or two:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/soekris-dac1421.7064/#post-235445

But summarized:
Good: 1) Not fatiguing and no digital glare sound (most important in a DAC IMO) 2) everything is done well - nothing is really lacking or below average, no other oddities or quirks (ex the clicking on Yggdrasil) 3) handles busy music better (for my tastes) better than most other R2R I've heard.
Good sometimes/bad sometimes: Ex like a sweater on a hot day vs a cold day, not necessarily because a sweater is bad thing to wear. 1) Analytical sound. 2) You feel slightly closer to sound than it probably really is (ex you sit closer to the stage).
Could improve, but already "good enough" that I'm happy: 1) Transients could be better. 2) Could have blacker background. 3) Could have more slam and macrodynamics. 4) Even with a Stellaris (more than enough amp) I feel like the Sennheiser veil was only 95% lifted on HD650/6xx (it's 100% lifted with some other good DACs and Stellaris).


I would also have no problems with a used HoloSprings Lvl3 if the price was right, but it'd have to be really right and in the right condition/use cases given how much $ can be involved in shipping this to China for repair. TOTL to me isn't necessarily newest, just stuff I like at a certain level.

 

What about Gustard U12? I can get it much cheaper than Eitr, will it be better that Eitr to pair with Modi Multibit? I'm not good with specs but U12 looks better featured than Eitr.

BTW, I posted my preliminary comparison between Verum and HE560 in Verum thread yesterday. https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...rformance-diy-planar.6348/page-46#post-246816

UPDATE: There was a mistake, I was advised to look at Gustard U16, not U12. And U16 is way too expensive. Now I look at Eitr and Breeze DU-U8 as main options for Modi Multibit.

 

The U16 is like $265 when it's on sale. I'd say that's a steal.

 

Whitigir broke down the parts for it & they seem to cost as much as the converter does. Good transformer, good clocks & the newest USB chip on the market.

Considering all the inputs it has & it being cheaper than the $400 Singxer SU-1 & way way cheaper than the
$800+ Audiobyte Hydra Z, I would say it's a good deal