The Last Jedi Thread (with Spoilers)

The core story of the new trilogy is the Rey/Kylo relationship.

TFA: Who is Rey? Who is Kylo? What happens when they meet for the first time?
TLJ: Now that they've met, what kind of connection do they have? How do they affect each other?
Ep. 9: We obviously don't know, but it will probably focus on how they are changed as a result of knowing each other.

There's lots of other star wars stuff that happens and it's fun to argue about all of the details, but if you don't connect with the Rey/Kylo story, then you are not going to like these movies. For me, the Rey/Kylo story is the best thing that these movies have done. And the actors are incredible. Easily the best SW has to offer with the exception of maybe Harrison Ford.

Some of you prefer a story about a nerd farmboy who becomes the most powerful and bestest person in the galaxy. That's cool. I still love the original trilogy, but the new one is doing more interesting things. My top 3 are probably ESB, TLJ, ANH in that order.

 

Also baffled by the Rogue One love. It was completely forgettable to me. That movie actually had alot of script and filming problems and it shows in the final product.

 

My top three are TLJ, ESB, and ANH in that order. And I agree that the Rey and Kylo/Ben relationship is the core of this trilogy AND among the best stories ever told in the SW universe. Adam Driver as Kylo/Ben is what Anakin should have been in the prequels.

 

@ultrabike I disagree with you thoroughly on TLJ but agree with you wholeheartedly on ESB. It’s a remarkable film and the reason Vader is still considered to be the preeminent cinematic villain.

When Luke arrives in the carbonite freezing room on Bespin and Vader is standing there waiting for him, I get chills.

 

I think when I reflect back on the original trilogy, and what was so special about them, it wasn't really so much the individual characters but rather the overall world building and the mystique of learning what the force was for the first time. So then it's also pretty logical that some of the standout scenes for me include anything with Yoda and him explaining what the force is and isn't, it's that sense of childhood wonder you get when experiencing something for the very first time.

Then we of course got some great characters too but for me the fundamental thing which drew me in was the world building and the mystique behind the force, space travel and a multispecies universe etc. You can probably never get that pure kick of learning about the force and good vs evil (light vs dark) again but I think if anything it's more of that which Star Wars needs going forward. IMHO Star Wars needs more mystique, lore expansion, force secrets, sith teachings, hidden relationships etc. What it doesn't need is more fan service, old revisiting characters, meaningless plots which go nowhere, superficial relationships and SJW stereotyping.

For instance; when Rey fell into that dark side water cave i thought "Oh wow, this might be it. We might actually learn something new about the force or about Rey here. Is this the moment which redeems Star Wars?". But no.. no no... oh no no. All we get is a bunch of flashy reflections which are supposed to look cool. We learn nothing new about the force, nothing new about Rey, she is a Mary Sue, yada yada. Big nothing, no reveal, no imagination, no progress, no vision. I think that scene in the water cave about sums it up for me on how I feel about OT vs the sequels.

 

ESB was a well-written and constructed continuation of the original film. My problem with TLJ is that structurally it is crap. The entire Chase angle of the story is utterly uninvolving, they turn Poe into a moron, Leia flies from the vacuum, which looked and felt ridiculous. The director / kylo Ren decided it would be a good idea to dispense with the "who are Rey's parents"angle, which may come back in the next movie, but it still reeks of audience contempt and doesn't count as actual character development. And Finn should have died in a suicide mission, that would have been epic. Instead, he gets saved by his would-be girlfriend, who utters trite and foolish phrase. Oh, and astrally projected Luke might be one of the lamest things in the entire saga. If people like it, fine. But it is extremely poorly written and plotted.

BTW, I'm a Jedi so I know about these things

 

Pretty good list. I’d add that the Knights of the Old Republic entry must include KOTOR2, and the story of Kreia. She is a remarkable character, fantastically written and voice-acted. Star Wars tends toward a superficial good-evil axis, and Kreia stands that on its head.

 

Funny, I feel that TLJ did more to highlight the Force and its mystery more than any SW film since ESB. I would also include the Mortis arc from Clone Wars and the last few episodes of Rebels into that canon as well.

 

You left out the Harry Potter-esque space casino scene, Space Walrus tit sucking, 'Can you hear me now' and all the other asinine attempts at slapstickish humor, escape pod escape plan that made zero sense, Admiral Purple Hair, Poe's mutiny that made zero sense, the disposal of Snoke and Ackbar, The rewriting of Star Wars physics via dropping bombs in space and weaponized hyperspace...

Premise is asinine, character development is asinine, plot is asinine

On and on just an absolute piece of garbage as a movie, especially when you consider how epic a movie these idiots could have made but decided to be 'artsy' or 'intellectual' or whatever the f**k that piece of garbage was supposed to be...

if you liked it, you liked it... but you like a piece of shit movie and I for one won't be supporting this franchise.

Damnit.

 

The characters felt like Star Wars, the locations felt like Star Wars, the space battle felt like Star Wars, the plot respected the OT, and we got to see Vader be a bad ass the way we Should have been able to see at least one last time from Luke in TLJ.

That's enough for me.

 

I'm pretty sure Rian Johnson is on the record as wanting to make an outside the box, viewer contemptuous film. I don't mind that as a concept, actually. The execution just stunk. And yes, the Canto Bight/PETA scene was an embarrassingly bad side plot. I've heard other people say that it's worthwhile because the kid pulls the broom to himself at the end of the film. Nope. That plot point is still hot garbage.

 

I think rogue one was a little plotty, and I could have done with a few less "I am one with the force" lines, but it had great cinematography, and was well paced and entertaining. I will say that I'm glad Forest Whitaker died early on, his character would have gotten on my nerves.

 

Wait! I thought Rian Johnson is a true blue-blood Star Wars connoisseur, one who understands and knows it inside-out and can do no wrong! A brilliant writer and film-maker with an exquisite and unmatched eye for detail! And anyone who thinks he's a no-talent hack and a brain-damaged asshole is engaging in self-important "gatekeeping" of the SW fan community!

 

Please show me where Johnson said he wanted to make something that showed contempt for the audience. He absolutely wanted to challenge the audience, but that’s not contemptuous.

Canto Bight was a vital sequence for Finn’s character development.

 

After they simply dismissed the build up of Snoke's and Rey's backstory, I don't see this movie deserving much credit for character development. BUT, if developing Finn were a priority, fine, just do it in a scene that doesn't look like a Harry Potter movie and doesn't conclude with a schmaltzy PSA and the introduction of Horrible plot lines about the politics of where the First Order and the Rebellion get their ships and prequel-esque younglings.

 

I think if someone wanted to make something mature and challenging for the audience which enjoyed the OT we'd have gray Jedis right about now, that's a direction I think the old school fans could appreciate. And we might also have sith fighting for good causes, as in the extended universe. It would be a more mature adult take on things, more shades of gray like Game of Thrones for instance.

But the new Star Wars really isn't for the old school fans, it's about remaking A New Hope for a younger generation and selling plastic toys of Rey. It's about Disney making bank. At least that's my take on it, but what do I know.