Eddie Current customer service story

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by thoth, Dec 6, 2019.

?

How much is EC responsible for the lost amp?

  1. < 5%

    40.6%
  2. 25% (give or take)

    21.7%
  3. 50%

    23.2%
  4. 75%

    10.1%
  5. > 95%

    4.3%
  1. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Agree that Craig covering return shipping is reasonable. Unless there was a prior agreement that the buyer would do so. Does EC have a consistent policy on this?

    But the customer wasn't "forced" to do anything. Maybe he could have found a local tech who could repair a solder joint for 5 Romanian Leu instead of shipping it at all. But, he decided to ship it back knowing Craig wasn't going to pay for it, and made an unfortunate choice to mail it uninsured.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  2. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    No.

    Craig is responsible for delivering a broken amp. Hence why I said I think Craig should (still) be responsible for repair and shipping costs.

    But Thoth is the one that lost the amp. He was the one that chose to ship the amp (back to Craig) without insurance.

    No.

    Thoth was NOT FORCED to send the amp uninsured.

    He CHOSE to send the amp uninsured.

    If there were extra custom fees, imposed even on broken goods being sent back for repair, then Thoth should have known about that before even buying the amp, and he should have been okay with that.

    Craig cannot be held responsible for local customs laws... that's just ridiculous.
     
  3. thoth

    thoth Acquaintance

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    I see you guys all put the blame on lack of insurance. I don't know how expensive it is internationally honestly. If it's not expensive then totally Craig should have given me instructions what to declare so that package (1) can be insured and (2) can avoid import fees.

    But if it is expensive or fees cannot be avoided, then insurance doesn't look like a reasonable solution. Maybe Craig knew this and didn't want to pay insurance/import fees on top of postage cost.

    I see his biggest fault in the fact that he must have know there's something shady with his workplace and still didn't register for email updates. You don't get international shipments valuing a few grand everyday, email updates are not that bothering.
     
  4. thoth

    thoth Acquaintance

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    The important missing point here is that Craig didn't provide any extra instructions. Insurance is not standard practice in online trading. Ebay sellers don't usually insure packages. I never insured packages and everything I ever shipped until this story arrived at destination. There's also import fees question. I just took the default option based on my previous online trade experience: no insurance, small declared value.
     
  5. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Let's not overlook that Craig sent Thoth an amp without insurance. Having that shipment insured is the responsibility of the seller. Again it makes zero sense why an expensive amplifier being shipped all the way to Romania had no insurance to begin with. It's not Thoth's fault he received a broken amp. It's still on Craig to rectify it by either refunding him fully or sending another amplifier or paying for return shipping/insurance. He's still responsible for making sure the customer receives the product as described, even during the return of the amplifier regardless if the customer sent it back without insurance. Craig is on the hook for the entire duration of that transaction. He should have instructed Thoth on how to ship it back and pay for it.

    I think it's fucked to blame Thoth who never received a working amp to begin with. Now he's out the money and no amp to show for it.
     
  6. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    It's your local import laws. I don't think Craig is supposed to be responsible for that, nor is he supposed to know what they are so as to be able to instruct you specifically on how to proceed.

    I know some sellers do that, but you can't expect all sellers to be able to provide you with that information. Craig certainly doesn't ship packages internationally every other week like those other sellers do. His store isn't on eBay after all.

    Yes, Craig's workplace may be questionable, and his attitude is also questionable. I would agree with that, but again, he is not the one that caused the package to be sent back, or lost. That's on USPS, and that's in connection with whatever shipping service provider you chose. And you were the one that chose to ship the amp uninsured.

    I'm sorry to say but that was a very unfortunate choice.

    You don't ship items with high values without insurance, unless you are okay with the item potentially being lost in transit. eBay sellers are okay with that because their operations allow them to make up for the costs. It's obviously not okay for either you or Craig.

    Well, if Craig is responsible for a full refund of the amp at this point, then...

    Thoth should be responsible for delivering a broken amp to Craig as well.

    Isn't that how it works?
     
  7. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    When you purchased something for several thousands of dollars, you expect proper service and support. Looking for a local tech to fix an unknown issue is not really an option when you purchase a product new and it is DOA.

    In this case, things started being shady the moment Craig got thoth's deposit, even threatening to not refund it unless thoth paid extra for "packaging fees" which is total BS and thoth was never told about it upfront, prior to giving a deposit. From that moment on, thoth was forced into a transaction because otherwise, he would lose money. That's the reality here, though some of you choose to ignore this.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Lessons learned here dealing with small boutique outfits:
    1. Use a refundable payment method: AMEX, Paypal, etc.
    2. Come to clear terms on final cost before any deposit is made: shipping, handling, boxing, any other extras
    3. Refund policies, penalties, how to ship back, etc.
    4. DOA policies, who pays? how to ship back, etc.
    Interesting how this would play out in small claims court. Would Judge Judy determine that Craig is at least partially responsible for the amp because 1) he provided inadequate instructions for sending back a damaged-in-shipping product; 2) he didn't make a determined effort to track and receive an RMA; Or would Judge Judy admonish @thoth with: You should have known better to not insure. Did you ask Craig on how much to insure?

    Calling our resident lawyer @zonto.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  9. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Why should he be? He has no responsibility here.
     
  10. thoth

    thoth Acquaintance

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    I just checked my emails. Craig initially proposed to send the amp insured. I asked him to send uninsured and with small value declared, to avoid import fees. Being honest here. So if it would get lost on the way to me, it would be my responsibility. But for shipping back, he should have given instructions.
     
  11. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Well that does change things...
     
  12. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    WTF man!!!!
    You can't have your cake and eat it too. Such is the life of a gambler.
     
  13. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    So you're saying...

    I receive a broken amp. Then I am entitled to a full refund of the amp, and I don't have to send it back to the seller?

    Shit...

    ...I guess I'll claim all of my Amazon shipments as being defective now, since they have no way to check and I get to keep the items anyways.
     
  14. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    As far as insurance not looking like a reasonable solution, it is quite literally the only way that you can protect yourself as a shipper. You're making the point for that right now. I don't ship anything domestic without insurance, let alone internationally. I'm sorry you're going through this, it's a real bummer.
     
  15. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Craig is basically a one man show, I guess Judy being the customer interface. Most likely to provide insulation from the crusty codger. He's definitely not going to take time off from running a business to find an uninsured package that the USPS can't find, nor should he.

    Extra packing fees are made known up front. You don't need to send a deposit to learn about them. And once Craig takes a deposit to pay for parts to build your amp, then you're on the hook for it. That's what a non-refundable deposit is.

    Best thing to do here is exactly what Thoth has already done: create visibility. Make consumers aware of what happened in a matter-of-fact way. Then let them decide whether or not to do business with this company in the future.
     
  16. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Speaking as an insider, and I'm sorry to say this, it's pure madness to trust such an expensive bit of kit on USPS and especially the Romanian post. I get not wanting to pay import fees but that's where you ship with couriers.

    I bought new headphones this week, bank transfer, shipped from a different continent, low value but with DHL, four times the cost but it arrived next day in perfect condition. The amp got damaged in shipping for sure because the wankers just throw stuff around. You gambled and lost.


    You have to be proactive in such endeavours, doesn't matter who's right or wrong if you lost money and no gear to show for it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  17. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Had a much longer post typed out but nah

    Thoth, I'm a stranger but my heart goes out to you for the financial loss and being in a place where the post seems to be actively out for blood. I know very much how that feels. I do think Craig Uthus definitely fucked up in many ways here, but speaking from experience undervaluing the cost of a parcel or not insisting on getting insurance might save you some money, but there will be cases such as now when it will just bleed you.

    Hell, even when I'm buying from Europe or elsewhere in Asia I often pay to have that shipped to a US address because there's a courier there whose services I've been using for years. They might be slow sometimes and are definitely expensive, but they've yet to really let me down. Is it painful financially? Yes. But I don't feel I'd be responsible if I didn't take precautions for big ticket items especially knowing what I do of my own local post.

    If there's any way to render the service used to transport the amp liable then I would hope that option be taken, though that seems like a shot at the moon.

    EC needs to establish standard protocol for messy scenarios like this as of five years ago. One man show it may be, but speaking as a consumer it would be assuring to know that a service provider or vendor has their butts covered as well as mine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  18. thoth

    thoth Acquaintance

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    Nope, positively nobody told me about this, and I reasonably should not expect any.
     
  19. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Sad story on for all involved but...

    1. You're buying a 3800 DOLLAR amp getting shipped to Romania without insurance to save on customs???? I've never sent anything over $100 without full insurance.

    2. Craig's customer service was lacking but he's one old guy nearly at the end of his career not Nordstrom or something...

    3. You sending back without insurance is your fault. I'm really sorry this happened but that's a fact.
     
  20. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Charging you extra for packaging without advance notice is shitty.
     

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