The Coronavirus Thread

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by purr1n, Mar 16, 2020.

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  1. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    I'm just learning that Wuhan is a LARGE city, 11 million people, larger than New York, not some outskirt border town. Watching an undercover documentary of one of these wet markets and there are presumably non-immunized (or whatever) animals from multiple continents in open air cages in rooms the size of large closets. I'm not a biologist but it's easy to imagine some crazy stuff coming out of that biological environment. Then people eat it...
     
  2. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    Too true. These days it seems like you can't say that without being called a conspiracy theorist or xenophobe. And yet people I know who currently travel and sometimes live there for work reasons tell me most people wouldn't be making those accusations if they lived there for any span of time. It's really not a matter of hate! They really do have some crazy, backwards-ass problems and I feel like this is actually super obvious to everyone by now. I don't get why it's such a faux-pas to point out the glaring, pervasive issues.

    It seems like when it's not corrupt, it's just a mess. And a lot of it really does seem to run deep in their society. Sometimes I wonder if China can even fix China. Maybe the world is in denial because they know they can't either.
     
  3. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    My best friend recently explained to me why wet markets still exist. He recently went to China for his family, he visited wet markets.

    Refrigerators are expensive. In short for many people in China (certain parts) a fridge is still too expensive to have and/or own.

    So a standard of living is at the root of the problem today. Kind of timeless...
     
  4. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I speak as someone who has rubbed shoulders with many Chinese tourists over the years but grew up terrified of becoming racist: https://www.wheninmanila.com/we-got...urists-using-the-street-as-a-public-bathroom/

    Also there was one lady who was speaking in an outdoor voice a foot from my ear at a packed grocery store last November or so and literally shoved a shoulder into my back while I was quietly queued up, waiting to reach the counter. Yes I hold grudges over small things for very long stretches of time.

    It's unfair to make generalisations about a whole nation based on a few bad actors, and I say that because I know there are many such beliefs about Filipinos, specifically in matters where racism or colourism* are concerned. Genuinely stupid beliefs can fester and foment because the majority of people only take the time to dig deep enough to scratch the surface of another culture, and a natural human inclination to focus on negative news than positive news (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/17470919.2019.1696225?src=recsys&journalCode=psns20) means that it's no surprise that those are the stories stand out more for the vast majority of people.

    All that said, it's outright stupid to turn a blind eye to what injustices do exist because you're afraid of stepping on others' toes. That's a wire I've been trying to walk on for over a decade.

    The facts as I understand them are that after the 2003 SARS outbreak there were measures implemented to regulate the wet markets where SARS the first was brewed, but there was sufficient demand from specific others who wanted them back:


    This may not have been a problem in and of itself outside of animal conservationism, but as @Deep Funk noted above refrigeration is f'ing pricey. This is a problem, and whether it's morally or ethically acceptable to eat bats, armadillos, or pangolins (or cats and dogs for that matter) is a whole 'nother shitshow but the fact that people are selling what-the-shit-ever and keeping them in absolutely fetid conditions that promote the inadvertent development of motherfucking pandemics is a problem that should have been addressed seventeen cunting years ago.

    *Random bit about colourism: https://www.interaksyon.com/breakin...ippines-culture-colorism-skin-discrimination/
    "In a Twitter thread, Jackson related how when living in the Philippines she was discriminated when she was younger and was called “negra” and “bruja” for her curly hair."
    The flip side to her story being that I've got pale skin and was bullied because of that, on top of being fat and short. The way I see it, people who look different or speak different languages or have different beliefs will always be ostracised or made fun of, and that initial sense of "otherness" makes it all too easy to grow hostility towards the out-group, and for that same out-group to grow hostile in retaliation.

    The mechanisms of why and how people tend to be assholes aside, what people should take away from all this is that we have now identified a great risk factor in wet markets (not necessarily Chinese ones alone, but they've got the track record) and to not implement preventative measures for similar scenarios would be irresponsible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  5. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    ^ From what I understand, they eat bats in many parts of Malaysia as well - no covid19/corona/China/Wuhan flu or other weird stuff originating from there. Not that I am condoning or excusing consumption of bats - probably shouldn't happen regardless. Same with other animals (such as various primates) that carry easily transmittable diseases.

    I don't think it's lack of access to a fridge. Most people in China who can't afford a fridge aren't the people who can afford to screw around with pangolin, bat, and other exotic meats as explained in the video above (they eat mostly pork, some chicken, and sometimes beef like much of the world). Heck, most the well off people I've met or know in China still know not to screw around with the above specifically because of disease. They'll do some "semi-exotic" stuff like occasionally turtle, frog, horse, dog, odd seafood, etc. (which most nations have some consumption of anyways) but they will tell you you're on your own for bats, monkeys, and the like. Granted, most of said people are also educated - I'm sure with that many people in China who still have a ghetto-rich mentality there are enough rich people trying to eat no-no food.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  6. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    We already know what causes this guys, it was discussed at length when Swine flu hit. China has human, hogs and ducks living in close quarters and they pass viruses back and forth between each other and they mutate more rapidly than they would otherwise.
     
  7. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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  8. JustAnotherRando

    JustAnotherRando My other bike is a Ferrari

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    What's this about Indians and milk? Is this... uh, the guys from the Indian subcontinent next to Asia, or some Native American thing you're talking about?

    I grew up with a lot of the former, but never encountered any particular cultural association with milk.
     
  9. JK47

    JK47 Guest

  10. kris2014

    kris2014 Acquaintance

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    We can only hope situation is contained soon....

    AFAIK, coronavirus is a large family of virus. It is quite unfortunate that this particular virus evolved and started infecting people. China is sort of in the middle ground of developing and developed country, where public health domain is “developing” but transportation fully “developed”. Things get moved/offloaded quick enough to cause problem.

    Chinese families don’t suffer from lack of fridges. However the country’s cold chain logistics have grave problem. If you googled a bit, from 2016, massive amount of failed vaccines were discovered all over the country, including DPT, rabies, and others. It turned out those vaccines were not transported across the country under controlled temperature and expired during shipments. And there aren’t warehouses that could store such things in places away from major metropolitan areas in China. Eventually people took those useless vaccines and died or suffered from the aftermath.

    Markets like the one suspected to be the origin is one bad example. Hygiene is indeed terrible (not that they don’t have fridge. In fact they do). Yet sometimes source of meet is questionable. A few years back when there was an outbreak of disease among cows. Local Gov. digged holes and pushed countless cows into the pits, buried and burnt. Then they had to put armed police to safeguard the place, otherwise peasants would dig the meat out and resell....

    because a hell lot of issues associated with China’s food industry, government actually banned transportation of living animals like Chicken. Only processed meet can be transported. It’s very difficult to get a living chicken in China’s metropolitan areas these days.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  11. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    I haven't been to China, but I've been to remote areas of India many times where they have these markets as well. (Fresh DOG anyone?) Another big factor is that even if you have the money for a fridge, electricity can be intermittent. I had to laugh when I saw a Baskin-Robbins Ice cream shoppe thinking that they probably had to run off generator 1/3 of the time.
     
  12. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    The Indian subcontinent. A lot of Indians who are fresh off the boat in the US come from the region where milk is heavily consumed. Some of the local Indians where I am buy tons of milk from the stores so they can make their Ghee locally (which is crazy because you can just buy sticks of butter and make it that way). Keep in mind that I'm half Indo second gen, so it is quite crazy to have those from the same culture background not only giving Indos a bad name, but they are very rude about it too. I'm like yes I understand you need milk for your cooking, but you don't have to be disrespectful to people who aren't Indos in the US about it. My GF for the longest time at my old job at Walgreens didn't understand when they have a discount on milk that the majority of buyers were Indians. The Indos second gen and beyond like me and others who are fully Americanized heavily roll our eyes when we see others from the same background being super cheap about getting a discount for 10/cents on milk.
     
  13. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    It always come to that. Asians are getting a lot of stinking eye looks, where I live, and some of them are not even Chinese but...the world can be cruel.


    Here it's not easy either, my cart is almost empty and now I had to improvise one:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  14. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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  15. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    It's been around as an antimalarial for a long, long time.

    Indian sweets (the fudge-like ones) are milk-based. Indian tea is 25% to 50% milk (chai: very different from the dash-of-milk British-style tea). Many Indians like to make their own yoghurt (known, in my end of India, as "curd.") but...
    That's a new one on me. Maybe because I know little to nothing about Indian village life and, I guess, my urban-Indian friends just buy their ghee. I've seen Indians in UK buying large amounts of butter to make it, but milk? Wouldn't one have to turn it into butter first, and that would be very wasteful.

    I'd better ask google/youtube. Or, even, my wife!
     
  16. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Yeah, some are hardcore like that. I guess some will buy certain type of milk before making ghee. Then again, what's the point when you can just go buy tons of sticks of butter or just go to the local Indian shop and get the stuff in the glass.
     
  17. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Maybe they like to imagine that the cow is in the yard. I hope they churn it all by hand in the really traditional way!
     
  18. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Internet says do it like this

    Fine. But I'll go on buying it. Especially as wife as a special source that sells special ghee with lovely smell and flavour :)
     
  19. Folsom

    Folsom SARS-Cov-2 Denier - Rando

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    Actually there is a more simple answer. The group fro Vancouver area anyway is a subsect religion that is only allowed to consume milk products they make themselves. (for whatever reason the religious mandate never included the act of milking)

    That's my understanding anyways.
     
  20. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    The milk isn’t for making paneer?
     
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