Jupiter Audio Research HD650 Impressions/Measurements (Finalized Mod)

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by Hands, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. Ntbm3

    Ntbm3 Friend

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    oh man that is too bad!! I am very interested is getting a pair.

    anyone looking to sell :)
     
  2. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Very interesting to see a lot of the friends simply did not enjoy the JAR600. I too prefer the JAR650 over the 600, but only slightly as I find it is more of a toss up between the two headphones depending on mood and genre of music I listen to. For me, because I mainly listen to vocal-oriented music, I prioritize smoother mids that JAR650 has over the livelier, exciting presentation of JAR600. In terms of pairing, neutral-ish/ lively sounding amps like SW51+ I thought was a better match up for JAR650 while warmer/thicker sounding amps like ZDT Jr. and Black Widow worked better with JAR600.

    @StageOne @Ntbm3 I really thought Starlett + JAR600 would be an excellent match based on my understandings of both, but I guess you never know until you try it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    @YMO Back when I had the ZDT Jr. I really enjoyed that synergy together with the JAR600. Did you not find that to be the case? I feel like at least with the THX789, it might be a bad match up with JAR600 because it tends to bring up the upper mids along with the slightly leaner tonality.

    Also have you guys all tried playing with the front foam pieces? I find that you can fine-tune the sound by swapping with various types of material.
     
  3. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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  4. Ntbm3

    Ntbm3 Friend

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  5. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I think the only difference is the foam insert. I believe this was a last minute change that @Hands implemented which you can buy here:
    https://www.foambymail.com/CR/solid-charcoal-regular-foam.html
     
  6. Ntbm3

    Ntbm3 Friend

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    My opinion is similar to YMO’s... I think it comes down to preference. Mine is not the 600 at the moment.

    I used everything on the zdt jr first then lugged the starlett upstairs to my temp home office . The starlett really brings the magic out of the senns.

    Funny how a subtle change can make all the difference from enjoying to cannot take headphones off.

    Or as YMO would say... the starlett makes my d!ck hard

    disclaimer I have had a glass or wine....
     
  7. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    When the tour is done, and before the pairs go back to @ChaChaRealSmooth, I'm going to listen to and measure them both.

    What was originally intended to be the initial loaner JAR600 @purr1n also found too bright. That one went back to @ext1 to add some damping he accidentally left out. He might have sent a whole new pair. I can't recall. I figured that would solve that.

    Even then, I only found it to be a little more excitable around 2Khz than the pair I own in measurements. Subtle material variances can account for that alone, so I wasn't too worried. I've tested stock 650s with similar or greater variance.

    And for the JAR650 loaner, I think the rear foam he used is not exactly like the stuff I used. I mean, it's the same product listing from the same company, but a recent sheet I got of the foam for my own purposes seemed like it had some revisions over what I originally used and suggested. I also have my JAR650 headband stretched out for a very loose fit, no doubt affecting the sound.

    So, I figure it's worth testing both of these units, which I haven't yet, to make sure I'm as calibrated as can be with anyone that's heard the loaner pairs. Or catch other variances I wouldn't expect.

    For the last few months, I'd suggested @ext1 try to put the HD800 driver in an enclosure similar to the HD6X0's. I believe he will be mostly away for the next couple years due to his military role, but it looks like @Bill-P has that front covered coincidentally. Pretty stoked about that. :)
     
  8. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    He did. I sent the old pair back and received a new pair. I listened to them and rather liked them tbh, although I haven't spent much time listening to a stock HD600 so I'm unsure how they compare. I thought the JAR 600 and the Fcoal Clear were not dissimilar in tonality.
     
  9. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    @tommytakis I did use my ZDT Jr and it is a great match for the HD600/JAR HD600. However, I did not find a real benefit of the mods over stock on the HD600. After a while I just started to use my HD600 again and I was like "I didn't really miss anything."

    I didn't mess around with any of the foam because I don't know jack shit about it. I don't even know how to swap out stuff, and I'm not even close to an expert on it. If this was the final mod of the JAR HD600, then call it a giant dud.

    I would be very curious on what @Hands has to say about this pair of the JAR HD600 when he gets around to listen to it. I just can't see how someone is going to like the mod on this pair of the HD600.
     
  10. BrokeSkoolBoi

    BrokeSkoolBoi Acquaintance

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    I'm getting myself into hot water because I already decided to get an Auteur, however I'm debating whether or not to keep my dt1990. I started this hobby with the 6xx but I sold it because it, to me, boring. Now that I'm getting older and staring at my monitor while i listen to music, I think I would appreciate what the hd650 does more. Does anyone think the JAR hd650 would get ear time alongside a hd600 and Aeteur?
     
  11. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    This question probably belongs more in the advice threads (for future reference), but I'll answer.

    This entirely depends on your preferences and system. I'm not sure whether or not you had an opportunity to audition (for obvious reasons nowadays), but some people really, REALLY don't like the ZMF sound. Granted, the Auteur is the most neutral in this regard, but it still has a touch of that ZMF timbre. Simply put, the Auteur has a differing presentation. Yes, it's better than the HD 600 and the JAR 650 in some areas (I like it more overall and would say it's the technically better headphones), but it also has some things it does poorly in other areas on top of having a dose of the ZMF sins of commission. Those might be enough for you to consider the Auteur worse than the HD 600 and JAR 650 even if it might be technically superior (I mean, look at Verite and SR1a. Very good headphones, but not all of us loved them).

    TL;DR, the only person who can answer that question is you. If it helps, my stock HD 650 still gets some use even owning the Auteur, Verite, and Utopia.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  12. Ntbm3

    Ntbm3 Friend

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    For what it is worth, after in heard the JAR650 loaner I preferred it over the stock 600,650 and Auteur.

    The Auteur was based on memory from late last year. Like Chacha says they have different strengths. But price was part of that consideration.

    the JAR650 is a great blend of the hd650/600. I enjoyed so much I luckily found a pair used recently and will be selling my 600/650.
     
  13. Pharmaboy

    Pharmaboy Friend

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    Some of us greatly like the ZMF sound. In this hobby, personal preferences & subjective interpretation of sound rule the day.

    My JAR650 gets occasional eartime along with 3 ZMFs (Eikon, Aeolus, Ori), LCD-2.1/pre-fazor, HEX v2, and Fidelio X2s. I auditioned the Verite open & closed IMS for weeks and was greatly impressed; IMO they combine a high level of detail & resolution with ear friendly voicing--a combination I hadn't encountered before.

    I've also heard a range of TOTL headphones, including electrostatics, several Focals, and some big $$ planars, that just didn't work for me, though many in this hobby go crazy for them.

    IMO the JAR650 and stock HD650, are budget headphones having sound quality out of proportion to their price & modest design. The JAR650 impresses me because it improves virtually every desirable sound characteristic of the stock headphone without imposing any sonic penalties.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  14. pure5152

    pure5152 Friend

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    JAR 650 and 600 Loaner Impressions

    [​IMG]

    Preliminaries

    Thanks to @tommytakis for letting me borrow his SW51+! Also thanks to @ChaChaRealSmooth for coordinating this loaner and @captkirk for letting me keep the JARs for a little longer.

    Ambient noise in my room: 32-34db

    Equipment used:
    • Gungnir Multibit (2019) (blue heaven power cord)
    • ECP 3F (amorphous transformers) (blue heaven power cord)
    • SW51+ with stock tubes (“low” mode only, stock schiit power cord)
    • Focal Utopia (surf cables OCC XLR)
    • Focal Clear (stock XLR)
    • JAR 650 (“coin mod”? chacha's balanced XLR cable)
    • JAR 600 (no “coin mod”, chacha's balanced XLR cable)
    • Audioquest Yukon XLR cable

    Impressions Overview

    Chain: Gungnir Multibit (2019) -> ECP 3F -> JAR 650 / JAR 600 / Clear / Utopia

    General Impressions
    • Love the timbre of the 600 and 650
    • lovely natural decay and sense of air
    • Good layering and soundstage depth, width, height
    • Good sense of clarity
    • Great dynamics and microdynamics
    • I preferred listening to the 600/650 over the clear, but preferred the utopia to both (utopia had smooth, euphonic mids, an immediacy to the sound, better dynamics, less rounded transients, and smoother highs)
    • Clamp force hasn’t changed from the 6xx/650/600: still too much IMO and gives me a headache after an hour. This, unfortunately, is a dealbreaker for me. Clear/Utopia are _much_ more comfortable in this regard
    • I don’t know how much these cost, but if they’re under $1k they’re an easy recommendation for me. I found the Gungnir Multibit A2 -> SW51+ -> 650/600 pretty synergistic overall, and it was really hard listening for the differences between the 3F/SW51+ with the 600 (although a little easier with the 650)
    JAR 600 General Impressions
    • Smooth extended highs with a good sense of air
    • Bass is punchy and controlled, with sharper attack, not that rounded
    • Seems to scale slightly less than the 650
    • No sense of veil at all
    • Sounds particularly good with more electronic music etc
    JAR 650 General Impressions
    • Less air and highs can sound a bit piercing/peaky at times with certain songs
    • Slightly more rounded bass than 600, but still punch with lots of body
    • Scales better than the 600
    • No sense of veil at all
    • Lovely tonality shines with guitars, vocals, more natural instruments
    • Sometimes seemed like it had better layering capabilities than the JAR600, and a higher/wider/deeper soundstage than the 600

    Song Specific Breakdown/Critical Listening Comparison

    Forsaken City - Sever the Skyline Mix – Maxo (Speed/Treble/Bass Attack)
    • Bass Attack/Punchiness: Utopia > 600 >= Clear > 650
    • Treble smoothness/lack of piercing: Utopia >= 600 > Clear >> 650
    • Perceived Speed: Utopia >> 600 == Clear >= 650
    • Engagement: Utopia >= 600 >= Clear > 650 (650 was way too piercing
    Every Direction Is North – El Ten Eleven (Many instrument layering, imaging quality, 0:00 - 2:18)
    • Complex Layering Clarity: 650 > 600 >= Utopia > Clear
    • Complex Instrument Placement/Clarity: 650 > 600 = Utopia > Clear
    • Tactility: Utopia > 600 > 650 > Clear
    • Engagement: 650 > Utopia = 600 > Clear (guitars on the 650 just sounded rich and meaty)
    Senses - Babokon Remix – Prismo, Babokon (soundstage, 0:00 - 0:45)
    • Soundstage width: 650 >= 600 > Utopia >= Clear
    • Soundstage depth (in front/behind): 650 > Utopia > 600 >= Clear
    • Soundstage air: utopia >= 600 >= 650
    • Soundstage height: 650 >= 600 > Utopia >= Clear
    • Imaging clarity/preciseness : Utopia > 600 >= Clear >= 650
    • Engagement: Utopia >= 650 >= 600 >= Clear (they all sounded pretty great haha)
    夜行 – Yorushika (female vocals)
    • Vocal quality (smile in the voice, quivers, texture): Utopia > 650 >= 600 >= Clear
    • Euphonic Mids: 650 > Utopia >= 600 >= Clear (this was hard, but I _think_ 650 was more euphonic)
    • Engagement: 650 > 600 > Utopia > Clear
    • Instrument Separation/Layering: 650 > 600 > Utopia > Clear
    Delete Forever – Grimes (Dynamics, 0:45-2:00)
    • Perceived Dynamics: Utopia > Clear >= 600 > 650
    • Bass quality (extension, punch): Utopia > Clear >= 600 > 650
    • Engagement: Utopia > 600 == Clear > 650 (high hat sounds too hot on the 650)
    • Perceived Clarity: Utopia > 600 >= Clear > 650

    Amp comparison: 3F vs SW51+


    Every Direction Is North – El Ten Eleven
    99.9 – MOB CHOIR, sajou no hana
    Forsaken City - Sever the Skyline Mix – Maxo
    花に亡霊 – Yorushika
    POP/STARS – K/DA, Madison Beer, (G)I-DLE, Jaira Burns, League of Legends
    だから僕は音楽を辞めた – Yorushika
    Little Things (with Quinn XCII & Chelsea Cutler) – Louis The Child, Quinn XCII, Chelsea Cutler

    600:
    • I’ll be honest, it was very difficult picking out the differences between the SW51+ and 3F, I had to listen _very_ closely to pick out differences
    • 3F has more plankton than SW51+, slightly more separation and more precise imaging than the SW51+
    • 3F is the faster amp, but SW51+ is no slouch and I was surprised how well it kept up with very fast drum lines, high hats
    • SW51+ sounds slightly more bouncier than the 3F, which leads to slightly higher engagement for me
    650:
    • Differences were a little more clear
    • Songs that sound piercing on the 3F sound more listenable on the SW51+
    • Vocals sounds slightly more pure with less grain and more nuance on the 3F than the SW51+
    • Things slightly less tactile on SW51+ than 3F (this is something 3F shines in, I love it)
    • From this comparison I feel the 650 scales a little more than the 600
    • SW51+ has a little more reverb, which leads notes/instruments to feel more like they’re played in a space/room than the 3F; that said, the 3F sounds cleaner/more separated in general
    • Again, the SW51+ feels bouncier, which I found very enjoyable (is this microdynamics? macrodynamics?)
    • I find myself grooving/getting more engaged with the music with the SW51+ more than the 3F
    • Over a long time: the 3F sounds overall clearer, more defined, with less fatigue when doing non-critical listening (for me)
    • 3F sounds punchier, sharper, more defined, more lively, less rounded after extended listening

    Conclusions

    To be honest, doing all this critical listening was draining and difficult, if only because each headphone used sounded so good that it was hard to listen critically without becoming lost in engagement (and also because they all sounded so good it took dedicated comparative A/Bing to really determine the differences). That’s probably the biggest compliment I can give to both headphones — with the 3F and the SW51+, they’re just really engaging to listen to. Gone is any sennheiser veil, and what’s left is great timbre, good dynamics, and great layering and soundstage fullness.

    Comparing the JAR 650 and JAR 600 with the clear, the only thing the clear really maybe beat both out is in dynamics (and also comfort) — for soundstage, timbre, and layering, I’d take the JARs. However, the utopia trumped both the JARs to me, with superior dynamics, bass attack, speed, tactility, and very even mids and smooth highs.

    I found the JAR 600 to have tighter, punchier bass and also smoother, more extended highs than the JAR 650, which had more rounded bass and peakier, more fatiguing highs in comparison. I found the JAR 650 to have better timbre for real instruments and voices, however, and it was my preference when listening to music with such. I also found that the JAR 650 felt like it scaled better with sources — it sounded more tactile, less grainy, and overall clearer with the 3F than the SW51+, whereas with the JAR 600 it was harder to hear differences between the amps.

    Finally, I found both JARs sounded a bit bounchier on the SW51+, which engaged me more initially, but the slightly more rounded and slower transients ended up feeling more fatiguing in the long term. I ended up preferring and appreciating the 3F’s punchier, sharper, more lively sound after extended listening. Still, it surprised me how excellent the SW51+ sounded, and how close it sounded to the 3F (immense compliment to the SW51+). In fact, with the JAR 600, it was very difficult pinpointing differences at all.

    And oh, before I forget, yeah @Brian D, I think it’s a huge step up from the stock HD 650. The veil was the one thing that made me sell my hd 6xx before, and with it gone, I really think the JARs can be top-level contenders, and I would recommend it as a nice upgrade to your HD 650. If I never heard the utopia, I think I’d be pretty happy with a JAR 600/JAR 650 myself... but alas :)


    Edit: oh yeah, here are volume level comparisons in case you're curious (surprisingly, they're exactly same haha):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  15. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    So... how does one procure the JAR headphones?
    Having jumped VERY late on the Sennheiser 6 bandwagon, I’m very much interested in those!
     
  16. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    You can PM @ext1 for one, but not sure if he has time to make them right now since he is serving in the military
     
  17. Ntbm3

    Ntbm3 Friend

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    Seems like he will be gone for ~2yrs from reading around.

    I messaged maybe 3 months ago and he responded quickly, followed up a few weeks ago and nothing.

    Best bet is used market unfortunately...
     
  18. Brian D

    Brian D Facebook Friend

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    Excellent review @pure5152 , thanks for taking the extra time to include the SW51+. Sounds like I'm going to have to be patient to get a pair, but worth it.
     
  19. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    SW51+ is well worth the wait. I probably sound like a shill based on how often I complement that amp
     
  20. Brian D

    Brian D Facebook Friend

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    No shilling felt here, I have the amp as well and absolutely love it. It seems like the JAR650 is a nice complement to the amp at a reasonable price, just that availability may be limited. Going to reach out to @ext1 and see what happens.
     

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