Cable Building

Discussion in 'DIY' started by Skyline, Sep 30, 2015.

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  1. fastfwd

    fastfwd Friend

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    That's a good-looking knife, but I don't recognize it. It looks a little like my Caly 3, except for the clip -- is it an old Calypso?
     
  2. bobboxbody

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    Spyderco Para 3 with MXG deep carry clip
     
  3. m17xr2b

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    After dealing with sub optimal umbilicals spending far to much on connectors that never work properly and after getting electrocuted I decided to go pro.
    100£ for brilliant 4 male and 4 chassis speakOn NL8FC neutrik 8 pin connectors and van damme 8 core pro studio tour cable at 14AWG each core. Result is two sturdy cables where I won't have to worry ever again. One for heater connections and other for HT and grounds 14 total cores used and two to spare.
    [​IMG]

    Bonus, I've always appreciated garden hose thickness cables with purpose.

    [​IMG]

    Found the standard amphenol connectors confusing, too large and relisted I had to buy separate pins. This is easy.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  4. ohshitgorillas

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    I made another pair of these RCA cables... see my previous post. TLDR a fancy center conductor in an oversized sleeve, with two mil-spec SPC wires wrapped around it in opposing spirals, one ground and one floating as an RF drain. I tweaked the formula a little bit:
    • Duelund silver in silk/oil for center conductor, previously used Jupiter cryo copper
    • Marked inner sleeve with white-out every 3/4", to ensure consistency of the ground/drain wire wrap
    • PTFE tape over outer wires to keep them in place (made outer sleeve a major pain because paracord kept getting caught and trying to fold over on itself)
    • Furutech FP-126(G) connectors
    These are admittedly kind of a pain to make, compared to a coax cable or star quad cable... but f'ing hell it works. Initial impressions are extremely impressive. Excellent detail retrieval, separation, dynamics. As far as differences between tweaking high end audio rigs go, I feel like this is definitely more on the side of an obvious, clear improvement. Going from my previous best cable to the previous one I made, I honestly felt like I had gotten a new DAC or something. The levels of detail the HD800 was able to excavate are just jaw dropping, and certainly nothing my rig was capable of before. I still have to compare the two, but I can at least say I'm extremely impressed with both. So impressed, I'm going to go ahead and replace all my cables with similar designs, as well as put a couple 1m pairs together for sale using Furutech connectors and Jupiter cryo copper. I'm not trying to get into the business, I am happy with my geology + mass spectrometry career, just hoping my hobby can be a little more self sustaining. I don't have much experience with commerical cables, but I'm hoping whatever price point I decide on, it will be a killer deal.

    20200530_235531_HDR.jpg
    20200531_001605.jpg
    20200531_152716.jpg

    EDIT: Quick update... the Furutech/Duelund combo did not sound as good as the Jupiter/DH Labs combo. Don't get me wrong, it's a very nice cable, very clear and smooth with none of the brightness/harshness usually associated with silver, however, it doesn't quite preserve the same eye-popping level of depth and microdetail as the Jupiter cryogenic copper. I might try reterminating it with some silver KLEI connectors to see if that improves on it at all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  5. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Sorry for my ignorance. What are these cables for? Amp to power supply?
     
  6. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    It's been a while since I did my cable comparison for future cable projects, but I finally finished the first one I planned:
    HD800 cable!
    Serious_HD800_cable_blurryphonepicinbed.jpg

    As mentioned in my other post I was still using the stock HD800 cable to this date. I've tried different cables (mostly at shows) before and generally knew what to expect from a better cable. I also know that I have a disdain for silver plated copper cables, even though I prefer silver over copper. I really hated the stock cable. These are the 'ingredients' for my cable:
    • Duelund AC 0.4 silver in cotton/oil wire (4x4m length)
    • Furutech FT-H800 Rhodium HD800 connectors
    • Eidolic 4 pin XLR
    • Mundorf Supreme solder (9.5% silver, 0.1% gold)
    • white cotton tubing around the silver wire
    The last bit, the white cotton tubing is a large reason why it took longer than I had wanted. I had to find the right size first. This one ended up being absolutely perfect - you really don't feel that it's not the insulation. I wanted it not only for the looks, but also to add some thickness, to make it feel more robust. Getting it on was easier than I expected aswell. Total cost was about 420€, about 150€ of which was from the connectors alone.

    I also replaced the internal wiring with the AC 0.4, which subjectively felt like at least a 12% improvement (reltive to the actual cable change), despite those tiny wires being only 2cm in length and thankfully do not appear to be silver plated copper. You get rid of some plastic sheen that way, but they don't have the silver plated copper sharpness. If you're not comfortable soldering at the driver terminals it's not something that makes or breaks the sound.

    My construction is super simple - something that I may regret in the future. No additional strain relief to the ones built into the connectors (and the one in the XLR connector really needs thicker wires to work). I was going to heatshrink where the wires split, but I found that it was totally fine without heatshrink - at least for now. I twisted each pair of wires first, before twisting the two leads together again. It's not entirely perfect, but I managed to get it looking better than I expected. Soldering the 10% silver solder also wasn't nearly as difficult as I expected it to be. It's also a quite flexible and lightweight cable. Ergonomics are at least on par with the stock cable in my opinion.

    So how does it sound? A lot more open and much clearer than the stock cable. Possibly the most open sounding cable I've heard on my HD800. It also appears to be more resolving. Even then the tonality is slightly on the warm side, with a slight, but noticeable rolloff in the top octave and a satisfying midbass kick when called for. Synergy is great with the HD800 IMO and that's why I used these wires. Bass extension is likely slightly lacking compared to thick copper wires a la Norne audio, but there's a lot of texture. Overall the difference is really not slight, but it's also not cheap.
    My main point of comparison would be a Mundorf SGW105 cable I heard on my HD800 before, but aside from being similar in technicalities they're almost polar opposites in sound. The SGW105 (in the stock teflon insulation) sounded much sharper. Possibly a bit U-shaped even. It even reminded me a bit of a hyper stock cable. This one sounds more like a copper cable, but with much improved resolution, while retaining a natural, smooth and unforgiving sound. There's really a certain naturalness to the Duelund AC 0.4 wire that is so easy to get used to. Some may argue it sounds a bit soft compared to silver wire with no insulation, but for the HD800 it just works. You get more of the "sounds emanating from thin air" effect.

    Another point of comparison would be the uber cable me and @Muse Wanderer heard on his Utopia at High End (that cost 2k€). I think they are similar. Although since we only tried it on the Utopia I can't really compare them and the stock Utopia cable likely sounds a lot better than the stock HD800 cable. I know I prefer my XLR to TRS adapter I made from the HD600 cable over the one made from the HD800 cable.

    I could've saved 100€ by hardwiring and likely would've gotten a slightly better sound, but I wanted to be able to easily switch cables in the future. In my experience good plugs are nearly transparent in sound.
    The real question is how well will it hold up over time? Are the silver wires going to break? The solder connections? Is the white cotton going to turn gray over time? Are the wires going to untwist? Only time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  7. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    This is the exact wire I'm considering for a hybrid copper/silver wire. So you made a 4-strand 4m long cable? That's only 26 AWG per polarity, right? I'm also concerned about breakage over time. Curious how long yours holds up.
     
  8. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Yup, 0.4mm diameter, which is about 26 AWG. I'm actually not that concerned considering how it feels and how well the 1m piece held up to twisting and turning it, but we'll see. If/when it breaks I'll definitely mention it.
    By the way, I bought 4m because I read that it'd become a lot shorter after twisting, but since mine is not that tight its length didn't change that much. Maybe from 4m15 to 3m95 or so.
     
  9. ohshitgorillas

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    Upon request from someone who was enticed by my description of my weird RCA cable design which I also posted in a Facebook group (DIY Cable Makers), I built a second pair--this time in white--and shipped it off.

    2020-05-31 22.46.46.jpg

    I was nervous to hear whether or not he'd notice a difference, since his setup is a Magni/Modi (not sure which gen), and his headphones are the Sony XBA-H3 and JVC HA-SZ2000... so not exactly at the level where people start to worry about interconnect quality. Regardless, he said that he didn't care and wasn't expecting a difference, he was happy just to have something handmade by a contributing member of the community. He was upgrading from Monoprice cables, so not exactly stiff competition (actually I do remember those cables being frustratingly stiff...).

    Here are some excerpts from his thoughts: "I can hear so many beautiful little details. A tighter rumble in the bass, the actual movement of the string vibrating, the flop of the fabric stuffed inside the bass drum... background noises, puffs of breath... every sound is just so engaging", "[They] bring out the quietest parts of recordings, and really makes so much more little sounds come out to play in my ears!" (sic)

    He's new to the hobby so still developing his audiophile vocabulary, but he definitely got substantial improvements out of them, which made me really happy. He also mentioned that he needed to EQ down the treble a little bit after switching to my cables, and based on my own listening, there is definitely a pronounced effect on treble extension such that it makes all of my other cables sound dull and rolled off. They bring a very incisive, forward, and energetic presentation that is intensely revealing, flaws and all, and give the impression of being razor sharp without ever crossing over into harshness or sibilance... at least on my warm system.

    I think these might be special, since the improvements are so clearly audible, but having never heard high-end commercial interconnects beyond BJC, I have absolutely no idea of how they compare. I'd be interested in getting an opinion from someone familiar with the cable market as to how these fare against commercial RCAs. I'll be building a few pairs of 1m versions in the near future, and I'd be willing to loan out a pair or two to Friends for an assessment if anyone is interested.
     
  10. bixby

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    I am curious as to what wire you used. The DH Labs RCAs are quite nice. I have used another version of them in a few homemade designs and they outperformed (sounded better/different) than Neutrik and the like. As for Blue Jeans, they are decent but not great by any means. Good if you do not know where to find good cables. There are a number of similar or lower priced cables that smack the BJ cables for same or less money. Hint- Pro Audio.

    I have been down the cable rabbit hole for over 30 years, and have emerged with lots more $$ in my pocket and a sinister smile on my face, knowing you can get very, very good performance for not a lot of cash.

    Congrats on going the diy route. Lots of fun stuff to try on that road.
     
  11. ohshitgorillas

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    The central conductor is Jupiter's cryogenic copper, 26awg. The ground and RFI drain are cryogenic SPC wires from PCx, 26 awg stranded.

    Yeah, I have never really been a fan of coaxial RCAs after trying various other styles. Also, I was not a fan of the cheap Neutrik/Rean connectors, they sounded super thin and flat compared to even WBT knockoffs. The fact that my cable design absolutely crushes BJC LC-1 isn't so surprising, however, it's my only point of reference to the commercial market. It's frustrating not knowing how these compare to similarly priced commercial cables, because I would like to sell some on the side. They are so far ahead of everything else I've made--like I said, everything else sounds dull, claustrophobic, and rolled-off compared to these. I really cannot stress enough by how much these RCAs just blow everything else out of the water. This is way beyond subtle. But, who knows, maybe a pair of Pangea RCAs would stomp on them?

    I knocked out a couple more pairs this weekend, using some thicker paracord. The results are dangerously good looking. I used DH Labs and Furutech connectors. The Furutechs are the better sounding connector, but the question here is whether they are worth double the price of the DH Labs. So far the answer is... maybe... it's not a night and day difference but there is clearly a bit more depth and detail. The 'winner' of these comparisons will face off against KLEI connectors.

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    EDIT: Just a quick follow-up, my experience between the DH Labs and the Furutech RCAs using the HD800 is thus: the primary difference is that the Furu's have a noticably (but not significantly) deeper soundstage. They also have slightly more fine detail, and maybe a little wider stage. The DH Labs sound more shallow and thus a little more of an intimate and forward presentation. I'm not 100% convinced that the Furutechs are worth double the price, as I don't think that extra depth is something I'd notice in the absence of A/B testing, and both do a superb job of staging/separation generally. Then again, soundstage has never been the most important factor in my headphone system, and those with better gear may hear a more significant distinction.

    EDIT 2: After more listening, the Furutechs are that much better. It's not just the depth of the stage, but they also sound a bit more full bodied, warmer, and smoother. The DH Labs are more clinical sounding and... well, not harsh or hard, but not as smooth as the Furus
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  12. bixby

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    Are those the Furutech 126?

    As for how your cables may sound vs pricier commercial offerings, do not spend any money to find out. I have heard tons of them and many good diy or pro cables sound as good or better than cables $400 and up.

    The real WBT low mass copper and silver rcas are almost as good as you will find. However the Furutech are not far behind. And surprisingly some really cheap rcas are good enough to dethrone a pair of VH Audio cables with WBT silvers. Can you believe Amphenol did that.
     
  13. ohshitgorillas

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    Don't worry, I have no intention of buying any commercial cables :p if anything, I'm going to replace all the cables in my system with this style over time.

    Yes, Furutech FP-126(G), recommended to me a few pages back :D. Absolutely lovely sounding connectors. I have used the WBT low-mass female RCA connectors, pricy but very impressive. That said, for the time being I have no intention of going beyond the Furutech or similarly priced options (e.g. low-mass KLEI w/ pure silver contacts). In the future I might move up to DH Labs Ultimate, for which I've seen nothing but praise, however the WBTs are just too expensive for my tastes.

    I am definitely going to have to check out the Amphenol connectors. For my cheap cables (Mogami W2549), I'm using Switchcraft nickel-plated connectors.
     
  14. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I was thinking of posting this in the All Purpose Thread, but I'm asking for advice on how to build something cable related, so I figured the experts would be here.

    I'm currently feeding the AES out of DEQ2496 (110Ω, 3.5 Vp-p, transformer-coupled) directly to the S/PDIF RCA input of Bifrost 2, and it's working fine (XLR hot/cold > RCA pin/sleeve, chassis ground N/C, Mogami W2964). I asked Schiit tech support if there would be any longterm issues feeding the higher AES voltage into the BF2's S/PDIF and the initial response was "It shouldn't cause any damage", but I'm getting further clarification.

    I found 2 sources with the same recipe for an AES-to-S/PDIF attenuator using 4 resistors:

    [​IMG]

    https://www.prosoundweb.com/interfacing-aes3-s-pdif-devices-and-addressing-myriad-variables/2/
    http://146.185.175.178/AES3_to_S/PDIF


    I'm thinking to insert this just in front of the RCA connector and am wondering what the best way would be to "package" the resistors. Slice open the cable lengthwise, insert them like a stent in vascular surgery, then wrap it all up in heatshrink?

    All suggestions welcome.
     
  15. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Do you think you could fit them within the XLR?
     
  16. ohshitgorillas

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    I'm just putting this out there... it took me EIGHT. DAYS. to go through 100 ft of connex cryogenic silver-plated copper wire.

    Eight f'ing days. Do I have a problem?

    Bonus pic of the headphone cable I made using the stuff for which I couldn't sleeve in paracord because the entrance to the boot splitter was too small. I will reterminate it at some point with overpriced connectors and take that opportunity to sleeve it properly.

    Actually this cable sounds surprisingly good. Nothing special, but I don't get any of the brightness or sibilance I usually associate with SPC. Made for my ZMF Blackwood, with Amphenol miniXLR and a Switchcraft TRS plug.
    20200609_191459.jpg
     
  17. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I wondered about that, but thought it might be too fiddly. I guess that's the better solution allowing use of the XLR's strain relief.
    Do what with it exactly, sleeve it? 100ft is a lot of wire.
     
  18. fastfwd

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    Inside the XLR connector is a good idea. Also, there would be two advantages to building it as a short XLR-F/XLR-M or RCA-F/RCA-M adapter instead of a long XLR-F/RCA-M cable:
    1. You can use it with any XLR-to-RCA cable, including the one you already have.
    2. You can split the circuitry between two connectors so it'll fit more easily.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  19. ohshitgorillas

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    Besides the headphone cable above, which probably consumed about a third, I've been making RCA cables using that wire as the ground (as well as an extra floating ground/drain wire), in the design I posted around the top of this page. I haven't finished all of them yet, I have a couple pairs that still need finished, otherwise I'm down to scraps. I also over-estimated the lengths I'd need so there are numerous scrap pieces, but even if I'd nailed it I'd still probably be down to the last 5 ft.
     
  20. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Yup.
    AES-SPDIF.jpg

    It fits just inside the Neutrik chuck which still grabs onto the wire for strain relief. I left chassis ground (pin 1) floating as it was working like that already. Nice tidy solution. Now I don't have to neurose about burning out the S/PDIF input of the BF2. Almost ready to start my DEQ2496 write up.

    Here is the original source of the circuit from Dennis Bohn, Rane Corporation.
    https://www.ranecommercial.com/kb_article.php?article=2125
    The link to the PDF version with clear schematics is broken, so I've uploaded the file for posterity (courtesy @atomicbob).

    Doh, I got your meaning backwards, thinking that 8 days was a long time to do whatever it was you needed to do to prep the wire. That is a lot of wire to go through in a little over a week. My 8-wire 8 ft. cable used just less than 70 ft. of wire and that took me a bit over a week of evenings to finish.
     

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