Schiit Magnius Headphone Amp

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Vtory, Aug 11, 2020.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
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    HDVA600/HDVD800 using a non-imaginative implementation (per the datasheet) of the TPA6120 resulted in a great match with the HD800. 40-ohm Zout is the sweet spot (IMO) of the HD800. Tonally it was a great match with the HD800, mellowing out its upper-mid trouble spot. The downside is that those implementations all imparted a similar color. It didn't matter what much what was used as the source. A iPod used as the source sounded no different than the built-in DAC sounded no different than a TOTL external DAC. This is why I eventually withdrew the Sennheiser amps from the recommended amps for HD800 thread.

    --

    Two four six eight who do we appreciate?

    This is the 0.844mVrms into 32-ohm balanced
    Nice triangle pattern like triodes, but only even "good" harmonics?
    upload_2020-8-11_10-0-7.png

    This is the 0.844mVrms into 32-ohm unbalanced / SE
    Looks like good ol' SET (single-ended-triode) here (some thoughts about this)
    upload_2020-8-11_10-10-13.png

    In theory, this distortion is too low to say anything. Experience says the distribution of harmonics, the patterns, even if theoretically too low, tell us more about the nature of the sound than the level of distortion. Audio science can be fun.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  2. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    These Texas Instruments parts kick the shit out of anything from AliExpress.
     
  3. Jigitz

    Jigitz New

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    So other than wanting an all-in-one solution why would anyone buy a Jotunheim over this? If it indeed ends up measuring better it seems like a no brainier to go with this. If someone more educated could enlighten me I'd appreciate it!
     
  4. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Their line-up seems to get a bit crowded? Wouldn't be surprised if they consolidate some products like Lyr3, Jot and maybe Valhalla. Make something with multiple modes of operation like Freya+?
     
  5. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    There seems to be a hole missing on the top of the amp. You know...for the tube. :p
     
  6. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    This looks like the Overkill Andromeda amplifier that I've been waiting for. Jason's hints at something bigger and discrete does have me holding off until FOTM wears off and some impressions come in.

    I still want what everyone else seems to be asking for - a mini aegir with relay volume control or basically a mini Rag2 that is more focused on headphones than being an integrated system.
     
  7. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    If "we" get an A90 in to compare with the Magnius - I'd be curious of the apples/oranges comparison of the A90 SE IN / BAL OUT vs. the Magnius which is BAL IN / BAL out or SE IN / SE OUT ONLY and there is no conversion from BAL to SE.

    The A90 (and now L30) both "look" (measurements) good on paper in all modes of input & output configuration. The SE out on the Magnius doesn't "look" (measurements again) as good on paper in SE IN / SE OUT. The A90 and L30 also have a lower "low" gain for sensitive IEM's, but I don't know what the volume control situation is on them. Would be really interested in finding out how the topping twins do against this little guy.
     
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  8. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Wait, is this really confirmed? Because that would be really surprising, and I'd doubt it very much..
     
  9. HotRatSalad

    HotRatSalad Friend

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    @schiit just confirmed elsewhere that SE out will work with XLR in or vice versa on Magnius.

    I wonder if this is a totally transparent passthrough situation like on liquid platinum ? the SE out on that is so transparent I can't tell it's in the path like even the saga passive. Only works SE>SE though on LP.
     
  10. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

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    Looks like the SE has a lot of 2nd order distortion and the Balanced out has lower than THX levels of distortion. One would expect that to make the SE output sound warmer and perhaps the XLR snappier sounding.

    If I am understanding TM Noble correctly, the SE output is only using one phase of the balanced output so the SE is not canceling the distortion between phases. I assume that means there is much less feedback off the SE. Very interesting, you might actually be able to get 4 different sound signatures off the Magnius/Modius combo by mixing/matching the SE/XLR outputs. Great value prospect and a wonderful stack for doing blind tests as according to dogma, none of the combinations should be distinguishable from each other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  11. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I think the amp section of the RME ADI-2 Pro is a good candidate for comparison as well.
     
  12. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    Please, someone correct me if I am wrong and I will update my post. I just "assumed" since it is not mentioned anywhere in the literature and Marv mentioned no summing.

    Edit: @purr1n - the L30 is just the SE only of the A90 and costs $150 I think. It might be an easier pill to swallow and possibly someone here already has one. If it comes down to it, I might grab one just to send and compare with the Mag.

    Edit 2: Updated my post regarding input / output of the Magnius.

     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  13. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophileâ„¢

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    The chapter of Magnius was really a good read.

    Below are interesting takeaways from my perspective
    • Volume pot quality is more important than we may think. Plays a large role in humming and noise. Big mag's pot is as uber as Jot's and of way higher quality than Magnis.
    • The use of TPA6120 in the output stage was determined by (1) closed panel testing followed by (2) public blind testing. In other words, it was determined by many folks' ears, rather than by ap555.
    • As already explained in other amp chapters, heat problem disabled to use full discrete output stages in the middle-sized chassis.
    Recently I've learned a lesson that NOT ALL excellent-measuring amps sound like shit. My gut says magnius could sound more normal and less ridiculous than something like Geshilli (which I damn love for myself but feel a bit resistant to recommend to others).

    Still not sure if its SE outs drive Grados better than magni 3+ though (in the context of synergy in technicalities and tones) -- any comments from alpha or beta testers?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  14. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    It doesn't make a different with Grados. It's the impedance switch that is a bigger difference for example on t00b amps. @pure5152 can chime in.
     
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  15. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

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    I find it entertaining to see how the ASR is giving their seal of approval to the Magnius despite the fact that it measures significantly worse in the single-ended mode. It actually measures worse as a single-ended amp than the Jotunheim that was vilified there since it was never tested as an amp only. I guess times are changing, or maybe they just love op-amps for some reason. Someone must own some Texas Instruments stock :)

    I really hope that this is it for opamp-based designs from Schiit for a while as I am craving to see some risque, ASR eye-rolling, envelope-pushing designs.
     
  16. Pogo

    Pogo Friend

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    By the next Drunk & Disorderly meet I should have enough time with the Magnius to discuss it's performance vs the $200 CarrbonX driven by my BF1 MB A2, Modious, vinyl and tuner sources. Please add it to the low rent agenda.
    Balanced phones used for testing will be Amiron Home, HD58x and He400i
    SE phones will be 1990Pro with several different pads and RS2e with OEM, TTVJ flats and Geekira pads.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  17. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Oh man this takes me back to those days when opamp rolling was super popular and the DIY scene was playing around with gain+buffer monstrosities which were really just hacked composite cmoys. I'm pretty sure I can dig up my "ibasso opamp rolling kit" somewhere. For a while the OPA627+BUF634 combo was king (I guess that was more current buffer not composite design, whatever). People would try to get the OPA637 to work but that needed higher gain to even approach stability and people complained about overheating and bad sound not realizing they were literally cooking the chip. I seem to recall some tried to run the composite with the 637 in the second slot running at higher internal gain but keeping overall gain low, with slightly better success. Then there were the guys treating the 6120 like a voltage chip, like c'mon at least read the datasheet.

    Ah, memories.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
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    Honestly I don't know anything about this amp. Any comment I may have made is stuff I'm pulling outta my ass, inferring from the words in SNOREâ„¢ (knowing Jason, there will be a meaning to every word), looking at the photo of the board, and examining the measurements. Jason knows I'm busy with all sorts of there more interesting fun gear and he isn't the pushy type. I'm more than happy to let Amir take the lead on this. Of course we all want to know how it sounds? Tomorrow. I will drop some quick impressions under a variety of conditions, unbalanced balanced in and out, etc.

    The x2 distortion level, distortion pattern, and noise from the SE out tells us that the SE is probably using half the balanced output.

    There are some excellent measuring amps that sound decent or good. However the best sounding ones are all "mediocre" in terms of measurements.

    The L30 doesn't make sense comparing to this amp. For unbalanced amp comparisons maybe, to Heresy which is $100, but then again, IMHO, Heresy makes me "zzz" at x1 gain.

    I have doubts that the unbalanced outputs will sound all that different from the balanced outputs. The only different in distortion pattern is missing odd-harmonics in the unbalanced output. Otherwise the pattern looks the same. If would be different if the output had a lot of odd-harmonics throughout that never really went down in level, or big odd harmonic spikes. Besides, the SE harmonic distortion is still pretty darn low.

    The curiosity for me is the x0.5 gain unbalanced output for use with super efficient BA type IEMs like the Campfires. The distortion pattern indicates this may be a good thing for BA type drivers. DD IEMs tend to require more juice and hence x1 or even x4 gain works OK with them even if a cheap pot where the channels are not balanced at low volume.

    I have do have a Carbon X, but I can't seem to find the switcher.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
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    It's because of the charm offensive from Tyler. And also because they are are growing and learning. Measurements are one thing, but applying arbitrary made-up (and that's what it is) purity tests and then condemning gear based on whether such gear passes those purity tests, without any consideration for design intent, is extremist asshole behavior. I've seen ASR soften already, not just for Schiit.

    It's like what @rhythmdevils said in the other thread: it's just the same shit over again but in different forms, HC/KG, nwavguy, going back to Doug Self in the 1970s. Do you why GAS Ampzilla power amps had opamps on the input stage - this coming from a company with some of the most talented solid-state amp engineers around? There was a period of time when Doug Self's philosophies had stranglehold on the industry. History repeats itself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  20. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Oh there's some stooooopid stuff coming. We're just slower than usual, because, like, everything.

    Remember, our "brand promise" (barf) is "fun, affordable audio components."

    "Fun" can mean an inexpensive measurement-monster amp or a crazy, 64-relay, 80%-nickel-core-all-LC relay ladder remote control equalizer or a 10-tube direct-coupled OTL tube amp. (Just blue-skying.)

    "Affordable" can mean $99 or $899 or even $1499, depending on your situation and means. Again, just blue-skying. (But we're not talking 5-figure stuff, just to be clear).

    We have lots of room to play in. Hopefully we come up with something that delights you. If not, there are a lot of other companies out there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020

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