DNA Starlett Impressions

This is correct. Often people evaluate gear on stuff like Diana Krall etc, and while I listen to female vocalists occasionally what I listen to most of the time is some variation of electronic music.

That is good to hear. The HD8xx is my favorite headphone series.

I would hope so being 4x the price. I am actually satisfied for the most part with LP other than this distortion issue I have found with more revealing tubes. Apparently the 2020 models are different than previous revisions and now the amp has a different sound - which actually happens to be quite good for electronic music but also seems to have some quirks.

I basically like my sound to be neutral-bright, but not painful; a ton of body and kick, with tight but not flabby bass. The main thing I am missing from LP is the euphonic sound I'd hope to get with synths + tubes, and I assume this is because its a hybrid amp.

My first concern going to "full tube" is that I've heard tube amps in the past that were "sweet" but didn't have that solid state kick. I know that is not all tube amps but something I have experienced. Also I have never experienced DNA sound sig so of course i have no idea exactly what this is other than what I could glean from this thread.

My second concern is that it only has unbalanced inputs. It is going to be a crapshoot if I get PC noise / ground loop as a result; generally I only tend to get that type of interference in studio monitors and not headphones, but it will be a bit of a gamble. Of course there are always ground loop isolators but it would suck to have a $2k amp that I'd need to mangle the analog signal to deal with it; I didn't have much success with USB dongles that claimed to break ground loop in the past.

I have to say I am pretty interested.

 

With studio monitor speakers connected to USB DAC connected to PC it seems ground loop or noise is inevitable without balanced in my experience. Headphones usually not an issue just a lot of $$$ to lay out without that balanced noise rejection guarantee.

 

@Ruined DNA doesn't have solid-state kick. the attacks are a little soapy and blunted. this is just the sound character of edcor transformers and jensen PIO caps. either you have the $$$ and jump in with both feet to gain experience, not being afraid to lose a little time & money, or stick to what you know.

most tube amps are not really for electronic/synthetic music

 

So essentially you want the Starlett with a Utopia!!

Jokes aside, while the Starlett is maybe a touch on the warm side it does top end well and plays nicely with bright cans - why the 800s and Utopias of the world are recommended for them. I am impressed with its dynamics, especially out of the Utopia, but I wouldnt say it really slams, at least not with my current headphones. There are others who are more slam oriented who may be able to add more to this (@tommytakis ??, please disregard if you are busy). I guess it depends upon ones definition here.

It has excellent bass control with the right DAC and tubes. From my tube rolling experience the Starlett seems to want to stay more middle of the road and doesnt like to stray too far from its inherent sound - ie tubes dont change the tonality much or end up sending it off the rails a bit. The tubes I use now essentially improved the punch, speed and clarity of the amp without buggering up its tonality. Outside of chasing NOS rectifiers the tubes are inexpensive for the most part if you want to try rolling, but you dont have to. The Starlett will run really well off of cheap tubes and the stock tubes are good, as many have already stated. They will also last a long time as I dont think the design has full power running through the tubes in order to eliminate the need for feedback to limit distortion ( someone correct me if I am wrong here ). I think there is some evidence to support lower power leading to improved lifetime but I heard that second hand and its an extrapolation from 2A3's.

As @ChaChaRealSmooth said you might need to simply take the plunge and see what these amps can do, or at least try to listen to one if possible. This thread had enough info on it for me to decide to order the Starlett, without having heard an equivalent amp, and there is nothing that I can disagree with regarding what has been stated about it characteristics.

 

Look on the bright side, if you get the amp and hate it, it isn't hard to get rid of it.

 

Yeah, that is basically what I'm looking for when trying to improve w/ the tubes for LP. It seems like LP stock is missing something. Maybe its texture, I don't know. On some songs it sounds great, other ones I was hoping for a little more. The attacks and dynamics on LP with the stock EH 6922 tubes are great with HD8xx, not too sharp but not too soft; if I can get something like that but MORE of the "wetness" with better 3D soundstage, that's what I'd like - but without the brightness of a strict solid state amp as it doesn't work as well with HD800. Oddly with the BEL 6922 tubes (which are supposed to be way better than EH 6922, Philips SQ Herleen-style sound), the attacks and dynamics were poor and bass weak - treble was more extended but too many other sacrifices for that. Songs that had explosive crescendos on the EH 6922 tubes just sort of were there with little fanfare on the BEL 6922 tubes.

The one I experimented with made like 10% difference, a little in the right direction but mostly wrong direction. Despite being a much more expensive tube it reduced the dynamics, bass, etc. More extended treble but that was the only improvement.

Well, the thing is the HD800 I would consider ultra-bright, so while the LP itself is not neutral-bright, when you combine the two together it works pretty well and I think the sum is close to neutral leaning bright - i meant overall signature dac+amp+HP = neutral bright (if you consider the HD600 hooked up to an average solid state amp "neutral"). If you use an actual neutral-bright amp with HD800 it is painful.

yeah I will probably do that. the LP with EH 6922 tubes is actually excellent for electronic music, better than other solid state amps I've had over 2x the price. Very explosive for something with tubes (even though only pre tubes). It sometimes can sound a little artificial on vocals, and I am finding some shrillness (on all of my headphones) in some frequencies. [apparently others having this issue too, primarily w/ new 2020 makes - worse on low impedance headphones] Soundstage could be better. So I kind of just want something in the style of Liquid Platinum but on steroids.

Maybe I am using the wrong words but I don't think what im looking for are really opposite. Maybe "wetness" is the word I am looking for. The LP w/ EH 6922 sounds a little bit "wet" (more than full solid state) but still retains tons of slam and dynamics I am used to on solid state; i like the "wet" that solid state lacks, but would like to retain that explosiveness the LP has. I would like to have more "wet" and at least the same amount of slam as LP, in short. I don't want the attacks removed nor more sharply defined, but perhaps a more 3D & wet presentation of synths. And other improvements would be a bonus.

I'll put it this way, the LP I'm like "wow that's closest to the best sound I've ever gotten." But I don't get goosebumps, it's not that good. There is still some sort of artificialness to the sound. Would be nice to get something that good that sounded more natural while still having the general feel of the LP.

Edit - meh I'll give it a shot

 

Monetarily, relative to what I have spent on audio equipment it was a mere tiny fraction. Sonically. I think I have an amp more suited to my preferences so it was a gain there. This was very much done out of curiosity and I respect that not everyone would have the same interest or would perhaps even see it as a chore to avoid. You can avoid it with the Starlett, if you want, with no issue. Donald has a good ear and the stock tubes voice the amp well.

Were some of the tubes a side grade, honestly, I would say yes. Some were actually a relative downgrade. I much preferred a non stock RCA clear top preamp when I ran a micro BL as a DAC; however, when I changed out to a BF2 I no longer liked the RCA so I went back to stock. I heard enough of a difference between preamp tubes that I decided to do some experimenting and ended up with a tube complement that no longer has any stock components and to me sounds better than what I started with, at least to my ear and my preferences. Did I miraculously transform the amp? Is this a HF thread? The answer to both is no. None of the tubes were magic pixie dust, just a bit of a bump in a preferred direction here and there.

The good news is I no longer feel any need to tube roll, it's out of my system, and if I were running an amp that required more expensive tubes I probably would not have done so to any great extent.

The absolute genius of this amp is that you can outfit it with tubes that will sound good for very little, and if you really want to there is an option to tube roll for relatively little.

 

So anyone want to play bingo while I wait for the amp to be delivered?

 

FYI: Dislikes is for adding noise to a thread. Don't use your namesake in ruining this thread. We don't want crap posting if that make sense.

 

I understand, just joking that the wait is going to be pretty rough...

 

Waiting for parcels does suck (I sorta know how that feels) but it's not necessarily a topic that'll contribute to discussion about the amp. There are other threads where people chat about most other things that aren't likely to start flame wars— might be cool to hang around there and talk shit about music you don't like

Cheers dude, hope your amp gets sorted soon!

 

While I was cleaning up my Starlett, I took a minute to peek inside....

Nice and tidy! I see some fancy bits in there as well.

Great work Donald!

It's pretty much a bottle head crack on roid's

 

Comparing the Lyr3 to the Starlett, specifically how does bass quantity/slam change? I'm assuming that mostly everything else would improve.

 

I have had some communication with Donald North as I'm trying to decide on whether to order a Starlett and am convinced that there's great the synergy with Auteur (and HD6x0). Upgrading to it from the Lyr3 would seems to be meaningful one in almost all respects, so I'm curious about how the low frequency presentation will change coming from that. Any input on that would be greatly appreciated.

Will stick with my Gungnir Multibit A1, though it's been mentioned A2 could be a better match. Also have a Jensen Radial TWIN ISO 1:1 converter on the way (hopefully even the Lyr3 will benefit from that).

 

I have the Starlett coming in December. As for chain I have the Yggdrasil GS (A1 essentially) and the Auteurs/HD6XX and Verite Closed coming in November. From everything this seems to be a good chain for the Starlett and one that many people here enjoy.

I think the Gungnir Multibit A1 will be more than sufficient. If you are happy with it, stick with it until you get the Starlett in then if you feel there is a gap you can upgrade.

 

I found colder more incisive DACs to work better with Starlett to be honest. There was more synergy with the NAD M51 than Bifrost 2, which has the same kind of warmth as Gungnir Multibit A1. I would seriously consider trading up.