Lessloss Audio Products

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by donunus, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    I agree with this not being a valid justification for sleazy sales tactics: "I explained that he needed to spend $1000 instead of $100 dollars to get good sound. He believed that and spent the money. He's happy so I haven't done anything wrong". Lying to the customer is always wrong and marketing snake oil is BS.
     
  2. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    I think many dealers, and even some "manufacturers" (especially in cables and other similar things with questionable value, which is Lessloss' core business, not DACs) aren't trying to fleece their customers, any more than a faith healer, they genuinely believe in what they are peddling - although making a buck out of it too means they have little motivation for soul-searching or self doubt. But maybe at heart I'm not that much of a cynic after all :)

    True story, I emailed a local dealer about a demo on a specific DAC (retailing for £899 before any discount, nothing crazy) and he called me next day. During this conversation (our first) he almost refused to set up the demo because I was using only some basic interconnects and would not hear the DAC "at its best". Oh dear.
     
  3. Bill R

    Bill R New

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    Great to hear from someone who has tried it. I was considering that DAC. For R2R DACs, the TotalDac brand seems to be the most liked. Might be wise to research what they use, and try to find it in a less expensive unit.
     
  4. Bill R

    Bill R New

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    Just go to the Marble/rock store. Fix the wood onto the Marble slab. Looks beautiful and reduces resonances.
     
  5. Bill R

    Bill R New

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    Incidentally, I do have the Lessloss USB Firewall. I like it much better than a Audioquest Jitterbug. For what it is, the retail price is rather high. Try to buy at a discount when possible.
     
  6. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    Not around here... Schiit stuff is unquestionably best value and also sounds great, regardless of cost. Go read "Life After Yggdrasil" for other ideas which are less good value.

    PS TotalDac uses discrete resistors. Holo Spring would be a cheaper option. See the thread mentioned above.
     
  7. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Wow, so you have "the very latest LessLoss Skin-filtering technology..." And all that bog-wood stuff.

    Well, good. Or something. If you're happy...
     
  8. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    @Thad E Ginathom Agree about the aesthetics. Nothing wrong with wanting some attractive speaker cabinets, or having a preference for a milled case, black case, or whatever appeals. Agree too about cables, though mine aren't being stressed much ;) Still if someone wants to pay more for a well built set, go for it.

    The snake oil stuff in Audio has been going on for a long time. I remember some company that was selling a few (nicely made) wooden disks. You were suppose to place these in the room until you found spots that 'time-aligned the sound waves' or something like that. Never mind the room is full of furniture, reflective floors and ceilings, pictures or whatever else... yep some reviewer swore he heard a positive benefit. There is probably no stopping that where there is a valid market, some companies are going to swoop in with something that is the equivalent of selling racing stickers for an extra 15HP.
     
  9. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    One thing that I think is massively underrated is having cables in distinct colours. It makes it so much easier when you have to futz about with them if you can see at a glace what's going where, without having to undo all your cable management and trace them.
     
  10. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Yes, I've bought cables by color for this reason. Not because red warms up the sound, or blue cools it off, just cable management at a glance.
     
  11. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I think that my first contact with it was the green-pen thing, but I'm sure there was earlier stuff, related to vinyl. Or Shellac even. My parents were not into audio at all (sadly) but I do think that their generation, who grew up with shellac and saw the beginnings of stereo on vinyl, had much more respect for engineering. Heck... I didn't think that: I read it somewhere. But it makes sense to me.

    By the way, I have an objective and unmeasured (certainly not blind-tested) impression that we have a relatively high number of engineers among our numbers, especially the "founder" members. They are not afraid to say that a tube full of sand cannot possibly do anything, But they don't hit out wit science religion either.

    EDIT PS... pseudo science is the absolute pits.
     
  12. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    OK, so not you... but how can people fall for this anthropomorphic stuff? Silver cables for bright so... lead for the best bass?
     
  13. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I do the same thing with a label maker...
     
  14. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    That works, to a point, too. However, I'd still rather have a bunch of different colours. I have also been known to use nail varnish on the metal hoods too, on occasion.
     
  15. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    It's too bad but the Audio (and other industries) has been this way for a long time. We accept it as norm in some industries (e.g., decor, fashion, non engineering stuff), and it happens no matter what in others. Nobody is very motivated to weed out all the nonsense because it's hardly worth the bother. Between -

    Placebo effect
    Psychological effects (like yea, it could be someone who sees silver experiences a perception change, maybe)
    Tiny bits of truth mixed in with a lot of BS
    That someone who spent way too much on x, y, z is motivated to justify the purchase
    The manufacturers of snake oil aren't motivated to disprove their claims
    That reviewers have their own motivation, including that if they are overly critical, eventually nobody is going to send them stuff to review (buying is an option, but not unless overall it's profitable)
    And well you know...

    Do you laugh or cry when someone spends X$ on a piece of electronics, or transducers, and then spends almost that much again on accessories?

    For whatever it's worth, it's another reason I got back into buying gear from Schiit. Interesting designs (I mean what's inside the box), fair pricing, and avoidance of claims that would leave me feeling invalidates all that they have done right. I chuckle at their sense of humor, like the manual notes 'can I use an audiophile grade power cable?; sure you can but what about the thousands of feet of crap wiring in your walls?). Keep it up :)
     
  16. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Depending on unsupportable claims should be illegal. I don't expect this to become a trend anywhere in the world, but I heard that successful prosecutions have been brought in UK. Mind you. I suspect the products are still out there, just with toned-down claims.

    But the customers are happy, so who is going to do the complaining?
     
  17. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    Thread from the dead...

    I'm working on a panzerholz plinth for my TT and ended up at LessLoss.com viewing their ladder dac somehow. In the thread above it was concluded that their $5K "Echo's End" DAC was a soekris board all gussied up in a wood case.

    They must have sold enough to get greedy. They now have a "Echo's End Reference" for $20K and the "Echo's End Reference Supreme Edition" at only $35k. I dont recognize the internals, maybe someone else here could...

    https://www.lessloss.com/echos-end-p-218.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
  18. soekris

    soekris MOT - Soekris Engineering

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    Still Soekris boards, but I believe the high end ones use one board per channel.... Seems like they take the signal from the unbuffered outputs, bypassing the buffer opamps.
     
  19. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    @soekris

    I see an opportunity here for you.

    You could make a DAC with, get this, TWO boards per channel ! And charge $70K per DAC !

    No more messing around with small change, am I right ? I'll make you some wood boxes at $10K per, we could clean up !

    Sarcasm.
     
  20. soekris

    soekris MOT - Soekris Engineering

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    Jokes aside, I am considering doing a high end version of my DACs, for poeple with too much money, something like:
    CNC cut single piece alu cabinet.
    Very nice display, maybe a lot of small discrete LEDs, like MSB do.
    Power supply in a seperate "room" in the cabinet.
    Selectable Tube or JFET output buffer.
    Larger FPGA.
    6 layers Rogers PCB, with extra thick gold layer.

    Any more ideas ? And not Audiophile Fuses, that's a joke.... There have to be at lest some good technical reason behind it....

    And then charge maybe $5K for it. Or find a fancy name and then charge $50K :)
     

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