Nectar Hive Electrostatic Headphones

What a surprising photo.

Surprised not only that Marv bought iesl but also that you still have sr007 sitting around... Thought you didn't have (diy) srm-t2 and 007 any more. haha.

I also vaguely remember you didn't look at srd-7 favorably. Glad that ifi seems to make a very solid job again. I'm kinda always thinking that ifi is one of the most underrated makers in the audiophile communities (for several unfortunate reasons).

 

Heh, glad to see more people taking transformers seriously. A pair of Sowter 4342s is cheaper than the srm727 but potentially has better bass than the Carbon (iirc).

 

You should ask @iFi audio for an iCan Pro to pair with it. I'll admit it wasn't my favourite amp when I had it on loaner, but they do have some proprietary doohicky connection on the back and I'm rather curious how they sound together.

 

They can.


ican rear. You will see 'esl-link' hdmi plug on bottom right


iesl rear. Also esl-link there.


iesl manual page 4


iesl manual page 9-10

 

I think I've heard the Pro iCan + iESL once... it was a very short listen, but it sounded completely lifeless.

 

For anybody who have larger ears such as myself and found the stock pads to be too round and not fit right, I was able to get these pads to replace them and they fit much better to my ears.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082GCQ3SY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I am enjoying them and they don't seem to be impacting the sound of the Hives at all.

@qu1en also seems to have created a foam that goes on the outside of the cup that will prevent dust from potentially harming the drivers. It seems that even when having this foam in while listening does not impact sound. I have not tried and trying to source this foam from Sajeev at the moment, so will update as I can try it out.

On a side note, if anybody is having annoyance due to the sticking stator problem, I found running the headphones on a lower voltage seems to resolves this problem. I found the 580V bias to cause a lot of stator sticking even when slight adjustments. I am now using the 230V bias on my amp, and this has solved all the stator sticking problems and I don't find the sound impacted other than having to turn up the volume due to lower voltage. YMMV of course, but it is something people should try out. I am even able to take off and put them back on with no problem.

 

The warmer nature of these must be quite helpful down there in Antarctica !

 

I have had a pair of Hive headphones for 10 days. My early impressions are mostly positive.


Tonality. The Hive has a rather neutral sound signature. Trebles were somewhat too hot to my ears at my first listening session, which is consistent with FR measurements posted at SBAF. Thus I lowered the trebles (centered at 8KHz for 3dB) via DEQ2496, which seemed to have improved the overall tonality close to my liking and I have since listened to the Hive with this EQ tuning. Both female and male voices sound fundamentally correct. In Come Away with Me, Norah Jones’s voice sounded a bit shouty with many systems I listened to, including some of mine. With the Hive, that forwardness in her utterances is mostly gone, suggesting that FR in the presence region is tuned down to some extent. But this is not to say that the mids are rather recessed through these headphones. To my taste, this could be a preferred voicing given many song recordings are too hot, dry, or sibilant. Violin, cello, and piano all sound natural and balanced.


I used to own a number of electrostatic headphones (Stax 009, 007, 404, Lambda Nova, and Perun) and auditioned more in various settings. Problematic tonality or timbre is a major reason that I let go most of them. I only keep the Nova because it has a meaty, rich sound despite that it is not nearly as resolving and precise sounding as some of the Stax headphones currently in production. Now the Hive appears to be the most tonally enjoyable ES headphones I have ever listened to. Yes, it still needs minor EQ to my satisfaction. However, it could be me who is treble sensitive; for others, it may be fine as it is.


Bass. While it is as not impactful as the Abyss 1266-CC I had before, the bass from Hive is among the very best out of all headphones I have heard, regardless of driver type. Unlike many headphones with a mid-bass emphasis, the Hive has very good sub-bass extension. The presence of bass is readily noticeable, and the bass lines are well-defined and easy to follow in all types of music I have tried with.


Resolution, speed, headstage, and imaging. Stax Omega headphones remain to be the best ES headphones among what I have heard in terms of technical performance with their fast speed, precise definition of sound trace borders, sculpture garden-like stage/image representation. On the other side, however, for these superior Hi-Fi sonic effects, tonality and non-fatiguing listening enjoyment are often compromised with mountain-like treble peaks typically shown on FR of super headphones such as Omega, R10, Hifiman Shangri-la, etc. Although the Hive lags behind the Omega or other super ES headphones (to some extent, HE-60; I have yet to experience HE-90 and HE-1), it is still better in Hi-Fi technicality than the Nova and most other headphones I have listened to. Playing back some EDM or some guitar solo tracks clearly showed the Hive’s excellent resolution, speed, and imaging capabilities. Those salient percussion instrument sounds in Josef Strauss’ Feuerfest! Polka were reproduced with startling realism, which also demonstrates strong technical performance of the Hive.


Despite its compact size, the Hive also produces expansive, out of or larger than your head soundstage. However, I am not convinced whether the depth of the soundstage is as impressive as the width or height. Perhaps an angled driver mount or angled earpads could enhance the perception of depth?


Vs. Utopia. Utopia sounds more dynamic, speaker-like but with greater tonal coloration. It needs more EQ tuning to my liking. The depth of headstage is also greater with the Utopia.


Vs. Verum 1. Both being basically one man’s garage production, Verum 1 and Hive are similar in overall neutral tonality. The Hive has better resolution and imaging, and faster speed.


Caveats. Besides the aforementioned treble peak which may need EQ tuning for individuals like me, wearing discomfort could be an issue for some users. I wish the clamping force can be lessened and would like to stretch the head frame for that perhaps with the advice from the manufacturer. The inner circle of stock earpads is slightly small (Hive, round: 57mm I.D.; in comparison, Utopia: 62mm long & 50mm wide; Verum perforated: 70mm & 52mm). The inside of earpads is touching my ears which causes some pressure and irritation especially for long listening sessions.


Having read about the stator/diaphragm stickiness issue with the Hive, I have been moving very slow and nice when putting on and off the Hive so that sudden changes in air pressure can be avoided. This approach generally works well. I had only one occurrence of the stickiness when I turned my head abruptly with the Hive on. Following the instructions given on the product note sheet, the issue was resolved in a few minutes. Between the excellent bass and overall tonality afforded by lower tension of diaphragm mount and the occasional stickiness, I would agree with the designer’s choice. Interestingly, Abyss 1266, another headphone with excellent bass, also has a tendency for diaphragm reaching magnet when extremely dynamic passages are played loudly.


In short, the Hive are excellent headphones regardless of driver type or price. The affordable price makes them a good value, just like Verum 1. It is remarkable that these reasonably-priced garage project products have emerged with such good tastes and maturity in sound tuning and overall solid construction. Considering its achievement of an unusually good balance between pleasant tonality and high technical performance, I will keep the Hive for long-term use.

 

I'm a huge fan of Nectar headphones, but I think your assumption about how ionizers work is incorrect. Ionizers work because most dust particles are positively charged. They release negative ions into the air, which the dust particles drift to. The clumps are so heavy - they fall down. Maybe you've seen that when you attach an ionizer to the wall - over time that wall will get grimy and hard to clean. That's what would happen when the bias on your driver is negative. The driver is not releasing negative ions into the air - it ITSELF is negatively charged, so it's going to attract positively charged dust particles like a magnet.

https://gasolec.com/ionization#:~:t...les in,create larger = heavier dust particles.

In short - you'll only find out over time if this has had a bad effect on your drivers - if you're consistently using a negatively charged bias. If I weren't using dust protection on my Nectar Pollinators - this would be my worst nightmare since I've already experienced squeal on other stats.

 

Sorry - I didn't think I was being argumentative and as such breaking the rules. I'm a fan of qu1en's work, and have traded a fair amount of e-mails with him. I thought my direct experience with surfaces around ionizers might be helpful evidence. I would agree that Kevin Gilmore is a biased source and didn't reference him at all as regards this topic.

My first stats, the Koss ESP95X, squealed - and I almost threw them at the wall before I got them sorted out. I similarly had issues with the RR1 before I cleaned them out. So for me - dust is a big concern. If I had known that they were so sensitive, I'd have never bought my first stat. But now I'm glad I did, it's been the most fun I've had in the headphone hobby.

I've now introduced myself on that thread, thanks.

If it's OK to change the subject, I was hoping to ask folks' opinion on the driver sticking to the stators. On my RR1's it's obvious when it happens, with a loud thrumming. On the Pollinators - it's much more subtle issue, with the mids suddenly being sucked out and hollow. I just recently realized that I was unfairly biasing them against my other stats because I typically connect both to my amp at the same time, then often switch in the middle of songs to do a direct comparison. I think I've unfairly biased the Pollinators because when i switch TO the Pollinators, the driver is likely to stick without me noticing it.

Is pausing the music when putting them on sufficient to prevent sticking? Or should I shut off the amp between switches of headphones?

 

On a tangential note, for those who worry about fiddly dust things and live in a climate where you have ducted air supply in your home, spend the extra few bucks for a proper pleated air filter instead of the cheap mesh ones. Reduce the problem at the source rather than spending money trying to make the dust stick to your walls and floors which is kind of a weird temporary fix in the first place.

 

Thanks - that's the procedure I've used when I've definitely gotten the driver stuck. But I was hoping for a fast-swap procedure to kill the placebo effect. My memories of certain headphones haven't stood up to direct comparison.

I'll try just pausing first, then I'll go for the full pin-touch and report back on any difference. I'll probably redo my comparison to my undamped Koss ESP95X this coming weekend.

 

Switching the bias to ground with a high voltage switch might work, but I wonder if channeling all that charge into ground could damage things.

In the end its just easier and safer to use your fingers.

 

Speaking as a guy with zero experience designing electrostat amps but just enough knowledge to have stupid ideas... could one put something like a 20 meg-ohm bleeder resistor at the bias pin connected to ground? (either chassis or separate ground line somewhere since I don't think the socket has an inherent ground pin)
Even with a 600V bias, that's 0.03mA and 18mW of power that the bias supply needs to deliver, and (I think??) still maintains the voltage bias across the pin (as long as you don't put it in series before the socket).

 

It's been a while since I last posted - but I wanted to confirm that with my modified Pollinators - if I'm careful I'm able to swap headphones even unpaused, and the driver won't stick to the stators. The one's I'd bought as special one-offs roll off slightly faster in the bass (around 50 hz) versus the usual 20. I've read that these achieve great bass by less tightly tensioned drivers, so perhaps it's easier on my pair.

I had modified my pair to add dust protection via speaker cloth, and adapters so I can use a hifiman headband for my big head. I had also created nylon baffles to use larger pads, and perhaps have similar performance to the Hive. But after extended comparison listening - these are extremely sensitive to increasing the distance between ear and driver. If I use larger more comfortable pads - even more than I've seen on other headphones - the mids get recessed, almost veiled. I think I'm going to settle with solid pleather pads, 95mm from my Plantronics Backbeat Pro. My big ears barely fit inside - but the sound is worth it.

So I've spent the last couple days doing head to head comparisons between my stats. Connecting both to an SRM 717, switching within songs when I want an instant comparison.

I've said before - stock, I don't think the Koss ESP95X competes with the Pollinators. I think in every category except soundstage - the Pollinators are superior. A few months ago I decided to remove all of the damping from the Koss (probably killed my warranty - but it was worth it) - and they're much closer to each other in sound quality. The Pollinators have far more bass, but the Koss bass layering may be better. The mids go to the Koss for microdetail and intimacy. Someone in a review above made a great comment about the presence region being dialed down - and that's what I'm hearing. The mids are very relaxed without being veiled on the Pollinators. Treble goes to the Pollinators - it's both more extended and smooth. I find the Koss treble slightly peaky. The Pollinators have a smaller soundstage however. If you already have an energizer - I believe the Pollinators might be the better entry into Stats. Especially if you're coming from planars and value bass over soundstage. That said, the Koss energizer works pretty well with the Nectars if you make a Koss-to-Stax adapter out of the Koss extension cable.

Next I've been comparing the Pollinators to my Stax L700's - and while not surprising due to the price difference - I enjoy the L700 more. But the result was a lot closer than I expected.

Bass quantity was surprisingly similar, but remember - my Nectars roll off a little more. But the L700 bass layering is much better. The mids on the L700 are far more intimate, warm and display more microdetail, which is odd because the L700 soundstage is also much larger than the Pollinator's. I usually associate intimate/detailed mids with a small soundstage. At 43, I'm not very treble sensitive, but I find the L700 treble both more extended and smooth. Overall presentation is brighter than the Pollinators - and this may be a turnoff to a lot of folks.

Ignoring price I can see people preferring the Pollinators or the Hive for a more even, pleasant tonality. And that's significant - since the Pollinators are (or were) $350, and the Hive around $700 last I checked, versus $1400 for a new pair of Stax L700. I may prefer the L700 overall - but I still think the Nectar headphones are a fantastic value. I've really enjoyed both modding and listening to them.

 

Nectar Hive Follow-Up Review

With some drama (see below), Hive finally came back to my place. Listening with it again for a few days, I still stand by almost every statement made in the initial evaluation. But possibly due to some changes in my chain, I feel like I should update the assessments a bit.

Aside: Long story short, I sold it to a local friend. He is now upgrading to extraordinarily expensive estats. And I missed Hive a lot for months.. so I bought them back -- with the amp he paired with.

Let’s first talk about which changes occurred to my rig since I reviewed Hive last time.

Amplification Changed

As I disclosed, the gigantic custom-built KGSS Carbon was kindly loaned to me. It was nearly overkill to drive Hive and I had to admit that’s almost a perfectly sounding amp KG ever designed except price. But the builder wanted to have it back much earlier than I could finance. With no idea which other amp closely replaced it with, I decided to let Hive go.

Many months later, I happened to audition Hive driven by Stax 353x. It was unbelievably acceptable given my previous not-so-good experience with Stax middle sized amps (313/323/1Mk2). Nope, it doesn’t kill Carbon or any other giants.. but equivalently enjoyable, stealing good traits from 717 and 727 respectively.

Converter Changed

My main dac was upgraded to DAC 2541 from Bifrost 2. With my taste and preference, 2541 has been making me happy with more details, higher resolution, and less thick sounding. Hive let me realize hidden details I couldn’t hear with other headphones I’m having.

Competitors Changed

During this summer to fall, I found and collected a lot of great headphones that met my specific tastes. Before I re-auditioned Hive, I didn’t think Hive could hold its own again. Well, shortly speaking, I was wrong.


Disclaimer

As I probably posted in other threads, nowadays I don’t prioritize “sonic supremacy” as much as I did before. Beyond a certain point, things just sound different to me. I’m getting to feel harder to tell apart uber things “vertically”.


Chains

• Estat: Soekris DAC 2541 Bal Out - Stax SRM-353x Bal In - Nectar Hive
• Dynamic (Control): Soekris DAC 2541 Bal Out - Schiit Mjolnir 1 Bal In Bal Out - ETA Gen-G

Sound

Hive’s base characters didn’t change much to me: Tonally it’s far away from Stax lambda or their circular cup products, rather resembling HE6 and OG Clear. Estat technical traits still there in both good and bad ways. But everything is done pretty acceptably to estat-haters.

Now with 2541 and 353x, Hive feels a little brighter than I recall. While Hive’s average treble level is on par with HE6SE and Clear, my very fatigue-vulnerable ears can bear Hive for more hours than the two competitors. A little hotter on lower treble (around ear gain region), but I like Hive’s more sedative balance between mid and high trebles. All these products have fantastic top end extensions to me. But super effortlessness along with tad ephemeral nuance leads me to take Hive over the other two.

Aside (My Estat Preference): Please note that I didn’t like classic Lambda’s highs at all. They’re too ill-balanced to me and not very listenable without the aid of the ED-1 equalizer. Newer L-series might be better but I didn’t hear them enough. 009 was way better than Lambdas up to lower treble (Hive and 009 show similar tonal response here), but then weird harshness kicked in which I couldn’t manage until the last day. 007 had the most preferable highs among the Stax bunch. But it could not wow, engage, nor excite me. I clearly knew this when I heard ES Lab’s ES-1a (which I consider a ‘refined’ 007). But these stax evaluations might be biased as I don’t think I gave them a fair chance to benefit from awesome-sounding dacs.

As I wrote in my initial analysis, I liked Hive’s bass a lot. It did a lot of things just right. But the challenge is now I own a lot of bass-quality monsters including Genesis Graphene, LCD-X, and Clear Mg. Hive surprisingly stacks well against them without showing any hint of inferiority. Emotional engagement and intimacy may go to Gen-G or LCD-X (both driven by Mjo1) depending on tracks, but I could analyze bass much easier with Hive. Multiple components in bass tone, texture, and gradation were immediately and discernibly heard with Hive unlike the others. 353x subtly boosted dynamics, which helped Hive not to lose much in macro games.

Hive’s bass is borderline lean with excellent linearity and tightness (unusually slamming and heft for estats as well). This allows me to better concentrate midrange. I don’t think other bass performers mentioned above damage the midrange at all. But Hive’s bass tonality inherently makes me pick up more information around bass-midrange connection. This, along with properly-leveled lower highs, makes vocal tracks shine. A little unsweet and dry to my liking, but I really like to hear an extremely clean and articulated voice.

In many aspects, Hive reminded me of JAR 580. Both had similar traits and characters. Not to mention similar sets of strengths.

I’d also like to praise Hive’s resolving capability. I like 2541 over any other dacs I’ve heard (with only exception of Holo Spring 2) as I can hear far more details without much effort. Hive magnifies this pleasure greatly. TBH I didn’t realize a healthy amount of additional details hidden in 2541 until Hive effortlessly revealed it in seconds. Even with some artificialities added to the mix, listening experience with Hive is very high resolution-ish. I love the crazy balance between omission and commission in this combination.

Lastly, and not surprisingly for estats, Hive is very open sounding. Head stage is moderately wide, deep, and spacious. One minor drawback I found in Gen-G was its lack of openness. Estats do this “structurally” better by nature.

Overall, Hive’s sound is enjoyably analytic. Among bright headphones, this is one of very few pairs I can hear day to day. I’m also thrilled with its capability to scale with better analog signals.


Comfort

While there wasn’t clear supremacy in sound, Gen-G has dethroned all my other headphones purely by comfort. Wearing comfort to me is defined by multiple components including weight, ear pads, and headband. In other words, I want my daily drivers (1) light (no more than 450g), (2) having plushy pads cushion, and (3) coming with a big-head friendly headband.

GenG is pretty good in #1, not bad in #2, but poor in #3. My head is easily getting too hot with the Senn 6x0 headband. I know it works for some people though.

Hive slightly loses in #1 and #2, but perfectly wins over GenG in #3. The headband consists of a large surface suspension strap and controlling extension adjustments is much more convenient with Hive’s one than GG. Kudos to Sajeev.

Hive’s downside is its sticking stators. It’s never a malfunction nor a defect. But this induces a little more frequent unplugging headphones from the amp, which actually bothers me. I’m concerned with mechanical wear in the 5-pin plug and connector.


Closing / TL;DR

To conclude, even with very capable competitors, Nectar Hive does hold its own in technical areas much better than I expected -- it just feels good to see my dac’s detail retrieval fully utilized. Tonality is bright but acceptably so to me. I’m wholeheartedly glad it came back home.

I’m also pretty impressed by SRM-353X but I’ll save my thoughts until I can give it a fair comparison (planned down the road).