Soekris DAC2541 Review And Measurements

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Kinda opposite direction. As I wrote in the post above, I was also considering to downsize to something acceptable as it might allow me more flexible cash to adventure later. Zen sig mostly met my minimum requirements. But I wasn't quite looking forward to much better experience.

    Plus, that time, I was more into speakers. Headphones got less time than they used to receive (maybe primary purpose of downsizing). However, I realized to spend way more hours around workstation rather than dedicated listening chair.. Now I don't see any good reason to downgrade.

    Lastly, using the image analogy, I'd describe zen sig as 720p with very fancy resizing algorithm.
     
  2. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    @atomicbob

    Do you have any impressions of the 2541 as an all in one vs. 2541 + SW51 using the HD650? How does the 2541 compare to the Holo Spring strictly as a dac? TIA!
     
  3. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I have not spent sufficient time using the dac2541 headphone output to comment about all in one.
    KTE Spring2 presents refinement and finesse over dac2541. If space isn't an issue and forced to pick one, for my preferences I'd take the KTE Spring2. However if space is an issue then I could happily enjoy dac2541. My transportable rig will be dac2541 and SW51+ for the foreseeable future. Fixed location listening stations continue to be Towering Delight as shown in the System Synergy thread and combination of Yggdrasil and Gungnir with EC Zana Deux.
     
  4. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    You'd better specify if you're asking about spring 1 or 2. Spring 1 (used price more compatible with new 2541) feels like a mixed bag to me (good things were really good but...). Spring 2 has addressed issues vey well and maturity differed a lot to the point I recognize S2 as a whole new or upper product. Both heard with LV3 tune and NOS mode. I haven't heard S1 and S2 side by side though.

    S1 vs 2541 could be interesting. I believe one over the other hugely depends on how much you value on nos-like characters and what compromises you can live with. S2 vs 2541 is easier decision if we can take out prices (and maybe space clearance issue too as mentioned by @atomicbob ) from the equation. From my limited triangulation, S2 feels to come with larger stage, denser information (at all levels), and richer timbre than 2541. S1 also with not too different sounding but many elements I recall were edged out by Gungnir A2 (control dac during the audition) which I place on par with 2541.
     
  5. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    For a while I owned both S1 (lvl 3 KTE) and dac1541, and more recently S2 (KTE) and still 1541 (which I just sold to a friend). In summary, S1 was ultimately too "primary colors" for me, very engaging for some material but exhausting after a while. 1541 was far from that, balanced and smooth, not tiring at all, but a bit "simplified" relative to the multiple levels of tone from the S1. S2 maintains those multiple levels, but in a much refined form, tonally dense but not overbearing, I can listen to it indefinitely. I understand from reviews here that 2541 improves 1541 on detail and dynamics, but if it maintains at all the Soekris house style, it's still going to be quite different from S2. I also own an Yggdrasil A2, although it's in a different location from S2 so I've not compared them properly. My experience with these DACs suggests that it would be difficult to decide what suits you best from even the most detailed impressions here, as they aren't easy to place on a single axis. I might say though that if I were to draw a line in my subjective impression space between 1541 and Yggdrasil, and project S2 onto that line, it would fall somewhere between the 1541 and Yggdrasil.

    If I ever go back to a work office, i'm planning to buy a 2541 for the compact setup there, which was the use case for my old 1541.
     
  6. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Thanks guys! Seems like S2 and potentially Morpheus would be a better comparison for another thread. Cheers!
     
  7. boxerfan88

    boxerfan88 New

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    Thank you. It looks like the S2 is a good potential upgrade from the dac1541.
     
  8. Jonah

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    I own both Spring 2 (lvl 2) and Soekris 2541. Since people have been asking about Spring 2 on this thread, I did a direct comparison between the two.

    Chain is:

    Speakers: Pi2AES -> Soekris dac2541 (spdif / black filter) / Holo Spring 2 lvl 2 (AES / NOS) -> JBL Nano Patch + -> Neumann KH120

    Headphones: Pi2AES -> Soekris dac2541 (spdif / black filter) / Holo Spring 2 lvl 2 (AES / NOS) -> SW51+ -> ZMF Auteur (Cocobolo, lambskin perf. auteur pads)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    bass: heavier, slower, more authoritative on spring 2. tighter, more agile on 2541, albeit more constrained sounding. think 'whumph' on spring 2 vs 'thump' on 2541. pitch differentiation and texture are great on both. spring 2 bass a tad more rolled off compared to 2541.

    mids: drier, cleaner, more upfront on 2541. with spring 2, vocals further back, more laidback, longer decay, 'wetter'. more 'effortless' sounding on the spring 2, but also sloppier. spring 2 smoother and slightly warmer, taking away some edge from rawer vocals and brass.

    treble: weird one for me; spring 2 more rolled and darker, but dac2541 seems to have less air? probably the shorter decay of 2541 leading to impression of less air. difference between a damped room vs a 'live' room i suppose, in dac form.

    clarity: both worse than my callia in different ways. 2541 can sound a bit congested/veiled at times due to 'lack of air', spring 2 can sound a bit over-smoothed and warm. neither bad per se.

    imaging: image size quite a bit larger on spring 2. image placement is good for both, but image sharpness is a bit hazy on the spring 2.

    headstage: much larger with spring 2, especially depth-wise. everything seated further back, given room to 'breathe', so to speak. slight wrap-around effect with spring 2, 2541 is better at projecting forward as a 'stage'

    transients: softer initial attack on spring 2, as well as longer decay. big positive is the rendering of decay, which leads to better microdetail and 'live' feel. but also kinda mushy compared to 2541, which has cleaner and faster transients, at the expense of perhaps being slightly too quick in decay.

    macrodynamics: spring 2 has legitimately bad macrodynamic performance. dac2541 is easily better in this regard, though i don't know how well it performs in the grand scheme of dacs. both are worse here than my callia, for instance.

    microdynamics: 2541 > spring 2. seems like spring 2's main weaknesses lie in dynamics overall

    detail retrieval: spring 2 a lot better on account of its longer decay trails, especially in regards to plankton/microdetail.

    timbre: 'wetter' and more 'organic' on spring 2. i'd surmise it's a more classic r2r sound, but i haven't heard enough r2r dacs to confirm. soekris has a timbre that's more in between that of r2r and d/s; it has a sense of flow and slight fullness that's more r2r like, but paired with a quicker decay that's d/s-like.

    2541 overall: a more put-together, cleaner sounding dac, albeit with less air than i like, and transients that decay just a tad too quickly.
    spring 2 overall: do not buy if you value slam, dynamics, or speed. i love it as a flavour dac, would not own as sole dac. rich, decadent, larger-than-life, but the trade-offs can be a dealbreaker.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  9. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    This is quite different from my experience with Spring 2 KTE vs Soekris dac1541 on headphones (DAC > {EC Af or ecp DSHA-3F} > ZMF Verité (closed mainly, but open sometimes). I listen to lots of modern jazz, and drum dynamics on Spring 2 KTE was a very noticeable improvement in reproducing the dynamic range of a Brian Blade or Eric Harland over dac1541 (I sold my dac1541 now so I can't repeat the comparisons). So, either KTE is significantly better on that then lvl 1, or dac2541 is a greater advance over dac1541 than previous reviews suggested.

    PS: However, there's a noticeable difference between NOS 44.1/16 and higher sample rates on Spring 2 KTE, to the point that I'm currently upsampling 2x (smooth linear phase) in Roon all 44.1 and 48 material.
     
  10. Jonah

    Jonah Acquaintance

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    Could very well be sample rate or differences between models. Most of my demo material was either 44.1 or 48. I haven't experimented much with HQPlayer or upsampling much either. Thanks for letting me know.

    For reference, I used Freedom - RATM to test macrodynamics. There's a part that goes from basically silence to full blast, and I noted that the absolute contrast between soft and loud was more compressed on the Spring 2 in comparison to dac2541. Like, not even close.

    I'll do another test later on with upsampling involved. Would you mind sharing some of the titles of the tracks you mentioned?
     
  11. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Maybe it's because the two products were indeed different. One KTE level 3 (@earnmyturns 's) and the other non-KTE level 2 (@Jonah). I doubt compatibility as I've seen healthy amount of differences between KTE vs non-KTE in Spring 1 OG as well as L2 vs L3.

    My short and limited listening more in line with @earnmyturns -- maybe the model I heard was also KTE L3 Spring2. Macrodynamics and transient both very impressive if not world-best.
     
  12. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    Not to derail (much), but I've been trying to figure out if the cost between Lvl1 vs Lvl2 vs KTE was worth it and have never found much information. This is the first time I've seen what might be proof that the extra cost has value.
     
  13. Baten

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    From what I see Lv. 2 is the biggest upgrade. Lv. 3 with its solder transformer seems more on the side of snake oil.
     
  14. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    A good track to show what I'm paying attention to: The Watcher in Dave Holland's Prism (Eric Harland on drums, some good drum kit dynamics from light brushes to kick drum). This is an 88.2/24 digital release, no upsampling. But I did not keep notes from when I actually had both DACs here a couple of months ago, unfortunately.
     
  15. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    A maybe even better test (because of ECM's recording house style) is Chris Potter's The Sirens album (digital 88.2/24), where there's a wide range between light drum work by Harland, Potter's horn, and the rest of the (stellar) ensemble. Even the softest cymbal touches and snare drum decays pop out from the background without being swamped by the much louder sax and piano. I've heard Harland live many times, and I don't find this wanting in dynamics, detail, attack speed or decay quality.
     
  16. Jonah

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    Alright, I had a chance to listen to some of the The Sirens album (digital 88.2/24), mainly focusing on the the title track. First off, let me get this out the way, this album sounds a lot better on the Spring 2 than it does on Soekris dac2541. The additional stage depth, more natural decay (stand-out), detail retrieval, and separation really do wonders to recreate the ambience in the recording. Much more nuanced and refined.

    That being said, in reference to absolute dynamic contrast, ie. difference between soft and loud, dac2541 outperforms Spring 2. The more upfront nature of dac2541 plays a part as well, but accented notes across all instruments were also more easily discerned on the dac2541.

    If I listened to more jazz, blues or (well recorded) live stuff, I would easily choose Holo Spring 2 over Soekris dac2541. What it does well, it does really well. However, I find the Soekris dac2541 more genre-agnostic which suits my eclectic music tastes better.

    I feel like Soekris dac2541 is more of a dac-of-all-trades, master of none. It didn't really stand out tremendously in any one aspect, but still maintained quite a unique identity via it's hybrid sigma-delta / R2R timbre and sensibilities. Taken holistically, a great dac with minor quibbles.

    By comparison, Holo Spring II (lvl 2) feels like much more of a specialist dac. It really excels in things such as decay, stage depth, larger-than-life imaging, ambience, and separation. But it also has more glaring flaws in my eyes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  17. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    I'm puzzled by this, which likely goes to show my relative naïveté in audio matters. What signal correlate(s) of perceived loudness are operating here? Both of these DACs measure very well, so it can't be anything as coarse as energy envelopes, because audible differences in that would correspond to measurable distortion. Transient rise speed, which might be different between the two DACs because of (lack of) filters? Just trying to understand.
     
  18. Syzygy

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    My expectation is that the differences heard can be accounted for by the filter in use for the particular DAC.

    After I receive my 2541, it'd be nice to learn more about filters, what goes into creating them, how to create them, etc. Given enough free time to do that, of course, which is saying something.
     
  19. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    If you study @atomicbob 's measurements for both DACs, you'll see the different behavior of NOS (Spring 2) and OS (Spring 2 and 2541) in the square wave plots. How that difference could affect loudness perception, I have no idea.
     
  20. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    One notable difference between Holo Audio KTE Spring2 and Soekris dac2541 is the THD+N vs Amplitude measurement:

    KTE Spring2 AES input Bal output:
    G2_L1T6_1_Spring2.png

    dac2541 AES input Bal output:
    G2_L1T6_1_dac2541.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021

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