Beyerdynamic DT880 Comparison

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by wadec22, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Mild necro on this thread with a modding attempt. Sometimes I mod things in 'sessions' where I pretty much rapid-iterate until I land somewhere I'm happy with, then measure, listen, and narrow in on tweaks til I settle in a place that both sounds and measures what I'd consider to be acceptable and enjoyable. It's improvisational and mindful, and with some practice you start to see patterns and develop strategies without dawdling aimlessly and unsuccessfully. Kind of like learning to play jazz standards. I'll probably scrap all of this in a day and start from scratch once again.

    This is one of the vintage pairs with 600 ohms and the future-fi looks (jump to quoted post below if you wish). Stock measurement from my previous post -

    Here's what I have now:

    upload_2021-3-24_16-6-44.png

    I do hear a bit of ringing in the 5.5k area but it's low enough relative to the rest of the balance that it doesn't bother me much at moderate listening levels. Still not as smooth as a Senn up top of course but definitely within my margin of 'good enough' for casual listening (I'm a bit picky though).

    The mods:

    Complete baffle replacement with micropore tape + 4 tiny vent holes (circled)
    upload_2021-3-24_16-15-33.png
    Not sure I recommend this as a general statement and I wasn't planning to do a total baffle replacement, but the stock config featured a very thick piece of felt that covered the entire front face of the driver along with the full width of the baffle. I didn't realize that the foam piece was in fact the baffle itself and proceeded to tear it off. So these were sitting torn wide open baffle-less for a while. 3M micropore tape works very well for this purpose and the vent holes help to prevent driver flex and improve bass texture. Still playing with this or moving to perf pads. While I am cornering off the farthest edges of the driver I don't feel the damping is any more heavy-handed than the stock felt. Considering peeling the tape back if I revise down the road. I like the subtle concavity as the tape slopes in from the pad lip to the center where the driver is. Vaguely horn-inspired.

    edit: 3M Micropore tape works well as a HD6-- series baffle replacement material too!

    upload_2021-3-24_16-22-25.png
    For the rest of the front we have T60RP pads with hairscreens removed and 1-ply generic brand 'strong' TP (started off without this but I find this driver needs a bit of control for optimal timbre).

    Now for the back:
    upload_2021-3-24_16-25-53.png
    There's a lot going on here...
    1. grills removed
    2. filter paper removed from central rear driver vents (there are 4 of them)
    3. smushed in cotton rolls along the perimeter of the enclosure to induce some 'soft coupling' between the front plastic baffle plate and the rear plate. Without this the housings had a lot of erroneous vibrations and mechanical energy buzzing around with audible ringing throughout most of of the response with the micropore baffles. This cleaned and tightened it up quite a bit without affecting the front or rear wavefront closest to the driver area.

    Anyway, I think it sounds pretty good! Better quality bass than my Senns (though maybe a bit more quantity than some may prefer), very lively dynamics (almost Focal-like), quite spacious... plays well with my OTL. I'll be passing these off to @tommytakis soon, unsure what to do with them next!

    This was a fun session. It's obvious the old 880s are more capable than the modern ones on a fundamental level - I don't think the same tonal response I have here would suit the contemporary 880 as well from my memory of them (would probably sound veiled, soft, and mushy). Funny enough my first 'decent' headphone was a DT880-250. Coming full circle with this, learned so much from then til now.

    EDIT: Runner up tuning with T-X0 pads and micopore curled back to allow full wavefront (for those who like 8XX voicing LOL)
     
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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  2. Baten

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    Oh yeah the vintage DT880-600 are quite nice sounding. I didn't mess with them much besides some comfort mods though, now I'm sad I got rid of them... great work!
     
  3. dubiousmike

    dubiousmike Friend

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    Glad to see some others out there still enjoying various iterations of dt880's in 2021 - and thanks for inspiring me to pull mine out and plug them in this morning! The consumer 250 ohm dt880's were what first got me into the hobby back in 2006, and despite dozens of headphones purchased since, I still have and enjoy them.

    I have to hand it to Beyer's design team - dt880's are arguably the most comfortable headphones I own and, no question, the most durable. Every other pair I bought in that era failed, to one extent or another, over time: Senn IE8's (driver failed); hd650's (headband yoke broke, but was reparable with super glue, and I still use them); Westone 4 (cable failed at junction with right bud and was not reparable); OG hd800 (headphones themselves still going strong, but the insulation on the og cable, which I reterminated to be balanced, is literally disintegrating above the Y). Compare the dt880's, which are built like a bloody tank, having even survived 2 years of use by my 10 year old (after she destroyed a pair of AT ES10's), and still going strong 15 years later.

    Dt880's have a slightly leaner presentation (less mid bass) than Senn 650's but more deep bass thump and livelier highs. Conversely, they have a much fuller presentation than AKG K701's, which were seemingly the dt880's prime competitor back when I bought them. At 1/4 the cost, they are certainly less resolving than hd800's, but with the treble peak at ~8.5khz instead of 6khz (like hd800's), I find they are also often better suited to many genres of modern popular music. [See Tyll's old data at: https://www.stereophile.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880250ohm.pdf ]

    Senn 650's have a more coherent sound, and I'll choose them (or hd800's) every time for classical listening and acoustic instrument timbre - although I still find the Beyer's enjoyable with these genres with decent source and amplification. The relatively spacious presentation of the Beyer's is also great for gaming and media consumption, and at 250 ohms and reasonably high sensitivity, my experience has been that they do well with my bottlehead builds as well as any decent solid state amps, even at unity gain. They are less bassy, full and fun sounding than thx00's, which I also enjoy regularly for casual listening, but more detailed and resolving - kind of a nice middle ground all told. I threw on Point North - Never Coming Home a few minutes ago, via my Yggdrasil -> self-built Wire SE, and was seriously rocking out with the dt880's. Definitely a set of cans I will hang on to until they, or I, give out for good. Even money on which happens first!
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
  4. Philimon

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    They lean bright trebley, but its a pretty smooth transition, somehow way less offensive than looks on graph. Pretty flat bass thru mids. Good bass extension, clean, but flat/undynamic.

    Disappointed by comfort though actually. Headband needs some bending. Maxxed out extension. Hot spot at top.

    Purchased as sacrifice for vintage ortho drivers. Now interested to hear 600ohm. I'll see if I can get stock T50RP pads on hear to bring down highs.

    Beyer DT880 Premium 250ohm.jpg

    Some DT880 links:
    https://www.stereophile.com/content...-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/modded-dt880-the-poor-mans-ether-c.1829/
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/wtf-beyerdynamic-dt880-250ohm.8088/
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...aradox-slant-vs-lcd-x-vs-dt250-vs-dt880.1823/
    https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt880-250ω/
     
  5. Philimon

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    DT880 t50rp pads.jpg

    In comparison, sounds a bit muffled. Certainly warmer. Would try removing front damping foam. BTW these are 250ohm

    edit: No longer interested. I think muffled revealed fake detail. Thicker pads for more sub bass necessary. Would need leather instead of velour for less highs and more bass I imagine. I might have suitable pads around to give a quick try.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
  6. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    DT880 AHl pads.jpg

    Not bad! I had to cheat a tiny bit by putting some light manual pressure on outside of cups to get a seal. The bass is there subjectively. Equal to Foster? Wouldn't say that, but now feel the 600ohm is worth exploring as a cheap alternative. More mods could improve. See @cskippy thread link above.

    AHl pads . I like these - use them on my Fosters. Just ordered a third set for Beyer. ;)

    edit: Might have smoother highs than thx00. Definitely worth checking out. Better csd than thx00 seen in cskippy thread.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
  7. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    DT880 AHl front damping removed.jpg
    I have to put a dab of finger pressure on outside of cups to get seal which makes measurements inconsistent (squiggly bass because hand shakes a little - epilepsy). The 8kHz peak now sounds familiar after removing front damping. Thickest densest felt I've ever seen, and its in front of driver. Just get a new driver Beyer. Bass sounds pretty nice but could use more extension. Not really interested in modding. Just tearing down and making notes. Ready for driver transplant. $10 Peerless driver might be a good fit if vintage ortho doesn't work out.
     
  8. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    DT880 premium. I was expecting the cup to be more open with a modular grill for 770/880/990. Well, grill is still modular and looks like it may just twist and unlock off/on, but the cup itself is more closed than appears from outside. Going to see how difficult it is to trim cups down for someone without proper tools.

    Reinserted thin front felt, but not thick dense felt disc. See post above for reference. Brought highs down to a little more reasonable levels. Bass boomy compared to THX00. Highs not so nasty as they appear, but still a little v-shaped.

    Before / after:
    DT880 modx.jpg
     
  9. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Not "vintage", but I think I have some wooden lasercut baffles for T50rp drivers into the Beyer shells if you're interested. I also have a T50rp transplanted into a Beyer COP with the adjustable vents.
     
  10. Ringingears

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    Very informative. I had a DT-880 250 ohm a few years ago. It had a lot of positives to the sound. Unfortunately my ears just couldn’t deal with the treble. But I tend to be treble sensitive. I sent them back after a week. Glad others enjoy the sound. Just shows that everyone is a little different.
     
  11. Earbuds Hub

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    Love it ,thank you !
     
  12. Gracchus Janus

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    Quick throw for you guys with modded 880s out there. I'm having mine fixed with an incoming driver system, but I want to lessen their treble peak as I find it very fatiguing, so I'll try DIY Audio Heaven's paper towel mod and cskippys, but I'm having a hard time finding hifiman pads down here. Has anyone tried Brainwavzs velours and hybrids? I think they go XL for the beyers, and I'm inclined to test them.
     
  13. Philimon

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    From inside have to bend some metal tabs and grill comes off. Driver is held in place with plastic tabs. Baffle grill and paper mesh would be convenient for an aftermarket driver. Measures ~50mm. Im going to try cutting off center of cup with solder knife tip to make more open but keep ability to reinsert stock grill later.

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    Ill start another thread for new driver(s). May be stalled though. Soldering station is in garage and its estimated to reach 111degress this weekend (a record temp).
     
  14. Armaegis

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    Oh interesting, your baffle is different from mine. Mine has a bit more of a "tunnel" around the driver.
     
  15. Philimon

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    Do not recommend using solder iron with knife tip to cut because plastic is thick and makes a bit of a mess. Shouldve used a small hand saw. Grills do still fit back on, but they wouldnt be as supported due to back of cups being gone however I will be filling cavity with damping material so should be okay driver protection.
     
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  16. donunus

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    Talking about DT880s, I have the 32 ohm dt880 pluggin in the ifi signature zen stack playing star wars last jedi soundtrack and using the 3d button OMG is all I can say. Amazing value on these cans.
     
  17. wormcycle

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    I bought DT880 600Ohms on SBAF a couple of years ago, but sold them because I could not see the point of having both T5p v2 and DT880. Fast forward and I bought DT880 600Ohms for $100 in Poland just few days ago., and that includes 23% of VAT :eek:
    600Ohm is half the price of 250Ohm here I think the reason is that it needs a serious amp, the market is small and most people use just USB DAC/amp dongles for laptop, or phones.
    Even after few ours of listening I know I will keep them and know exactly why.
    I am listening mostly to classical chamber music, one of the reasons is that for some I believe great orchestral and choral recordings I could not decipher even the first layer music architecture: the voices were blended together, very resolving headphones like HEKSE did not help much producing very accurate sound, but still blended.
    HD880 600Ohm does it for me: in complex counterpoint organ works, orchestral and choral music voices are effortlessly separated. I think that when I finally get back home I will revisit orchestral and choral works I skipped, first listening to with DT880 and then HEKSE, or HD800S.
    Overall, DT880 250 or 600 Ohm is an still one of the best ways to spend money on headphones.
     
  18. TinEaredOne

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    So, having read this thread, there's a lot of dislike out there of the Beyerdynamic sound signature, which even the new Pro X series seems to have. One wonders how they have sold any headphones.

    That said, I do have a question for those of you who own the headphones. Can they be tamed with a well-matched amplifier? I mean, my main headphones are AKG K612 Pro's, and while they sound shrill with the wrong recordings through the headphone out on my computer (ALC 1220 chip and whatever headphone amp chip Gigabyte used on their B550 Aorus boards), they are quite listenable while still being resolving listening to them through my Schiit Vali 2 (6N1P) and Modi 2 Uber. I enjoy them with that setup.

    I'm interested in a pair of Beyerdynamics for a silly reason - my family in Germany are from near Heilbronn where they're made - so I'll probably end up with a pair at some point. I can't see spending more than $300, though - on the headphones. Mods... well, that can come later.

    Your thoughts? The DT 880's seem like they'd fit my preferences and I am kind of expecting they'll play quite nicely with something like the Schiit Jotunheim 2 or Schiit Valhalla 2.
     
  19. Armaegis

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    Once you're into the realm of "not terribly underpowered from onboard sound card" (which usually sounds shrill and wimpy), you will never really drastically change the sound signature of a headphone unless you're doing radical things with output impedance or deliberate distortion characteristics from the amp.

    Stuffing damping material into the cup or under the pads will make a bigger change in sound.
     
  20. donunus

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    wormcycle, yes classical on dt880 is amazing. even the 32 ohm. It beats the Senn hd6xx, AKG k612, Senn hd560s, Grado 325x using bowls and the Beyer dt900 pro X for me. I had all of those at one time and sold the others off. I may get the 250 ohm someday since my experience with the other beyer, the dt990 pro 250 ohm is much better these days than it was when I tried them a decade ago. Maybe it matches well with the ifi signature zen stack, not sure but I actually really love the 990 pro on this rig quite a bit.
     

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