EC Aficionado (was: The Studio Jr.)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by AppleheadMay, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    After swapping L-R the two 2A3s, noise moved too, right to left. Increasingly convinced this is a tube defect, but if so I'm intrigued how it could be happening. It's brief, 1s or so, very faint, and spaced in time -- minutes, not seconds or hours. It's almost as if that tube is picking a regular EM emission, which I guess is not impossible if the particular physical characteristics of the tube "tune" on to some faint regular transmission in the environment. Which takes me back to @purr1n suggestions, maybe moving electronics around might nudge that EM source away from this hyper-sensitive tube.
     
  2. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    FWIW - I have a pair of tubes that will make a tiny bit of noise only after hours of use in my AF. Same thing - the noise is very brief, I can't hear it over music, etc. It's in both tubes but it's so little and infrequent I just wrote it off as "the cost of tubes". To top it all off, the same tubes in the Stellaris or different tubes used in the AF don't exhibit this behavior. Only problem is of all the 2A3 I have right now, these ones sound the best with the AF.
     
  3. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I know this is low hanging fruit, but it's worked for me in the past with low level noise in some tubes: clean pins with a brass bristle brush and deoxit, then wipe clean with some alcohol, then treat the pins with some Caig Progold or whatever it's called these days. Also, don't forget Grant Fidelity offers a 90 day warranty on new tubes bought from them.
     
  4. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    Embarrassing question: Is the right channel 2A3 on the right side as seen from the amp's front? To judge from the connectors on the back, it probably is, but I don't know what mysteries are inside... Thanks!
     
  5. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    You were right (as usual ;)). I had put old the RCA 2A3s back, the faint noise seemed to be gone at that point, but I hadn't listened a lot because of travel. Got back, and finally spend a whole afternoon in close listening. So, one of the RCAs had its own faint noise in the silences, different from the Linlai's, but also hinting at some periodic electronic interference. Looking carefully at everything again, realized that the Af was just a couple of feet from all the network and computer hardware on my work desk. Rearranged everything to move the Af as far as possible from the desk. That had an additional benefit that all the cables connecting amps, Goldpoint passives, DAC, digital source are now much better separated from power and data cables. Af power supply is as far as possible from Af. Whatever it was, those faint "bzzts" on both the RCAs and the Linlais. Back to the Linlais, appreciating again how good they sound.

    I'm still not sure why this happens just on one tube of each pair, independently of channel. My current theory is that slight internal variations between tubes make some more sensitive to EM interference, making them behave like antennas for stray EM from electronic gear.
     
  6. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Time for my OCD to play:
    "Where is that noise inside the Aficionado coming from?"
    and ask for ideas.

    Symptom: about 5-10 min into warm up a fast paced, a faint but noticeable fast clicking/flipping (background) electronic glitch sound is apparent in the right channel (ZMF headphones) of the Af, with no music playing.
    fast clicking apparent with ALL of these driver tubes: 2 Bendix 2c51, 2 Bendix 6385, RCA 2c51, Ericsson 2c51, Sylvania Gold pin 2c51, GE 2c51.

    Remedies that work/mask the problem:
    with the feedback switch ON the constant pattern of clicking is 95% removed, when the Bendix 2c51 tubes (and others) are used.
    (feedback ON not my preferred mode of listening)
    flipping the feedback switch to OFF, and the background clicking/flipping immediately returns and audible.

    with feedback switch OFF:
    2 lucky JW WE 2c51 tubes do NOT exhibit (or they hide) this clicking sound.
    other JW WE tubes and the clicking exists.
    powering off the Af and clicking fades away and stops as power drains.

    Actions taken that do not remove / change the clicking/glitching in right channel with feedback switch OFF:
    swapping Linlai 2A3 power tube positiions
    inserting Sylvania 2A2 power tubes
    changing 5AR4 rectifier tubes
    changing outlets on Furman or Emotive power strips
    changing source on the Yggdrasil
    changing cables SPDIF / AES on pi2aes
    disconnecting all other gear (DACs, pi2aes) in the room/circuit
    disconnecting XLR cables from Af
    using SE inputs on the Af
    volume pot rotation makes no change on the sound
    moving the power supply and umbilical farther away from amp
    waving aluminum foil around in the air
    burning hallucinogenic incense

    Primary question:
    With the feedback switch having a major affect on the clicking pattern does this indicate something elsewhere is running too hot or less filtered or ?

    I'm hesitant to email Craig about this issue since it appears mod related.

    am hopeful a guru could propose a couple "common parts" that might be easily field replaceable by myself or local techs in the area (Hi @MisterRogers ) rather than shipping Af + power supply + tubes to who knows where for who knows how long?

    other actions might be:
    - contact builder who installed the feedback switch
    - look for some solder point in the non-feedback path ?
    - learn to love feedback switch in ON position with certain tubes
    - stay lucky with magic JW WE driver tubes and Feedback OFF
    - turn off OCD
    - wait years for ears to degrade further

    Thanks for making it this far in reading this post. and in life.

    Days later Update: a new Vali2+ amp nearby also exhibits the same low/quiet background clicking as the Af. time to check out the electrical circuits or magnetic waves swirling around.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Do you know how the feedback switch was implemented? I always refused to do it because it's not so simple as installing a switch. The no feedback configuration should have a cathode bypass cap and resistor on the driver tube. If you prefer the no feedback sound, may as well make it permanently no feedback with appropriate cathode cap bypass. Who knows, maybe the extra shit (switches and other connections) may be picking up noise.

    TBH it makes me angry that there even was a no feedback version because some shithead 25 year-old some kid, who bragged that he was a winner at this age for being able to afford an AF at this age - what's his handle again? @Comzee blamed all of the "ills" of the AF on me from his "conversation" with Craig - with Craig actually willing to make a special no-feedback version for him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  8. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    I've occasionally noticed a faint "bzzt" sound on one of the channels of one of my two unmodified Aficionados. It seems to be associated with one of my Linlai E-2A3 tubes since swapping the tubes moves the noise to the other channel. However, I've once experienced a similar noise with RCA black plates, so it may be something to do with variation among tubes. Last, moving cabling and gear around has reduced, but not totally eliminated, occurrences of the noise. My hunch is that some tubes are a bit more sensitive to external EM from the multitude of devices in a modern home.
     
  9. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    well there's no real buzzing in this Af, but
    Days later Update: a new Vali2+ amp nearby also exhibits the same low/quiet background clicking as the Af. time to check out the electrical circuits or magnetic waves swirling around.

    or the low-level clicking is the gears in my brain needing oil.
     
  10. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    ^^ "Always listen to the smartest person in the room."

    Bingo. turns out the Xfinity router/wifi device in the room was the culprit!
    thanks @earnmyturns

    powering off the router, the faint clicking in both the Vali 2+ and Aficionado goes away.
    moving router to a location behind a desk in the same room, and voila clicking removed.

    maybe a driver tube shield could also help?

    glad the more sensitive Bendix tubes are now usable again in Af,
    with or without the feedback switch engaged. :D

    back to the music.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
  11. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    Yep, been there. The Bottlehead Crack, for example, might as well be a wireless antenna. When it was in the same room as my second access point, I could hear the wireless beacons, 10 clicks every second, not affected by the volume pot. Plus some other general RFI the tubes picked up.

    Moving the router to another room helped with most of the noise, a tube shield cleaned up the remainder.
     
  12. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    WiFi access points can be rather nasty as they adjust radio power to try to talk to more distant gear. I now realize that maybe the main source of the faint "bzzt" on my Af might have been the heavy WiFi traffic there between a UniFi mesh access point and several wireless devices (laptops and phone). I kept changing things, from moving the Af further away from most of the digital gear, to rearranging cables, to running the laptops wired rather than wireless, and finally moving the access point to a different place in the room (for other reasons, actually). The last few days that I was there listening to music, no "bzzt" at all. Now I'm about to move all that gear to a different location, we'll see how it plays out.

    OTOH, my other Af, also in a room (even more) full of digital gear, including a WiFi access point, is dead silent between tracks. Similar but not identical tubes. Reminds me of when I was a kid playing with analog electronics and slight component changes could be the difference between good performance and horrible noise.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
  13. fastfwd

    fastfwd Friend

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    Yet another good reason for tube sockets to be inside the metal enclosure, not screwed to the outside.
     
  14. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

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    Howdy folks.

    Has anyone gotten a chance to compare the Linlai Elite and the Psvane Acme 2a3 tubes?

    From my reading, they seem to be the top contenders in the non-NOS category but I haven't seen a direct comparison.
     
  15. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    ^ I've compared them back to back in my Stellaris and briefly in the AF.

    Long story short, I didn't like either in the AF as much before I sold it very recently and hence the comparison was only very brief. This was with a Amperex 5AR4 and a WE 396a. For new production, I strongly preferred the large envelope JJ tubes that were made in Slovakia I think (not sure where they are made as of 2022). The Linlai and Acme both had too much extra "color" and maybe "bloom" and a sort of "softness" that many modern Chinese tubes have and this sort of obstructed the general sound of the AF IMO. However, technical performance and resolution, etc was definitely better than the JJ.

    In the Stellaris, I would say I personally preferred the Acme with most input tubes and rectifiers, but there were 2 combos where I liked the Linlai more. I would prefer both of these over the JJ mentioned above in the Stellaris.
     
  16. Clear Water

    Clear Water Friend

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    I have both with the Stratus (v.2) and they are more similar than not. Both have rather long burn-in times--initially they had a treble etch that later went away at the cost of a slight narrowing of the stage. Both have a rather smooth, refined presentation, especially in the treble. They are not as warm as the Shuguang Natural Sound 2a3, nor do they have the holography and depth of the RCA monoplates. If I had to pinpoint any differences (all other things being equal), I would say that the Linlai is slightly warmer than the ACME and stages slightly larger. I don't have a preference between the two.
     
  17. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    @Clear Water 's assessment agrees with my assessment of both on Af (I have one Af here with Psvane Acme, another one elsewhere with Linlai Elite). I don't find them especially "bloomy" but my comparisons and experience are much more limited than his. Maybe I just like a tad of color anyway, given that most of my DACs are NOS and my headphones to ZMF...
     
  18. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

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    I very much appreciate the feedback, thanks.

    My AF is playing a constant tug of war with euphonic tendencies. I have the tertiary winding feedback applied, which supposedly dries out the sound, but then I have a pair of Jupiter caps as well.

    I am currently running a Bendix 2c51, but paired with EH Gold 2a3s. I wanted to see if I could "upgrade" the 2a3s, but not necessarily if it is going to push me in a "bloomy" direction, given the euphonic reputation the Bendix typically gets.

    @penguins , do you feel like the JJ is an upgrade from the EH Gold? (if you have heard those)

    @Clear Water and/or @earnmyturns, is the thought that the psvane is the less "bloomy" of the two?
     
  19. Clear Water

    Clear Water Friend

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    To me, the differences in bloom between the psvane and linlai are so small in that other adjustments in the chain make much more of an audible difference. I will say, though, that even paired with euphonic input tubes (certain 6n1p's) the sound didn't become as bloomy as the Shuguang Natural Sound 2a3's. I've not heard the EH Gold, so I'm not sure how it would compare.

    What I like about the ACMEs--and the linlais do this to some extent as well--is that I get a wonderful, clean treble that is ever so slightly cushioned (rounded? rolled off? halo-ed? I'm not sure). For the often poorly balanced 1950's to 60's classical recordings that make up the majority of my listening, this is really crucial for my enjoyment.
     
  20. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Yes, the JJ were an upgrade over the EH Gold and had a different sound as well.

    I'm not 100% sure if I should have used the word bloom above, but I can't think of anything better to describe what I heard. Which is also why I put maybe before bloom. Another way to put it - the acme and linlai seemed to have extra sound that wasn't just fill (think of adding a center channel to a 2ch setup), the extra sound seemed to last longer, and there was a little more color to the sound (in the traditional definition of the word you may see used with instruments).

    However, it was mostly the extra softness and lack of push / direction in the sound that sort of killed it for me with these tubes in the AF. Not a problem on it's own, I just didn't like this type of sound with the AF in particular.
     

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